Middlebuster-subsoiler for ditch digging ??

[Pooh_Bear]

Pooh,
Around here most rental places have a weekend policy that allows you to rent a tool on Saturday a.m. and return it on Monday, but only get a 1 day charge.......I would stick with a ride on unit though. I used a walk behind unit one time and will never do that again.

I watched a guy use a walk behind unit to do the trenching to our well house.
It was only about 150 feet but I'm glad it was him and not me.
He had never used one before and sure took a beating from it.

Hadn't thought to inquire about weekend rates.
I think there is one place in Chattanooga that does that.

Another thing I can do is see if any of my neighbors will be
hooking up to city water. They will need trenching too
and we could split the cost a bit. That would help all of us.
I can do all the trenching for everyone before returning the trencher
and cover the trenches back up with the tractor and back blade.

I think the sticker shock for renting a trencher has worn off.
So I'm gonna give up on the idea of using a middlebuster/subsoiler.

Thanks for all the advice.

Pooh Bear

 

[Pooh_Bear]

I question use of Galvanized pipe for under ground water distribution. Galvanized is not a good choice even with cathodic protection. I would highly recommend cross linked polyethylene or even push in type PVC for water distribution. Galvanized and you'll be doing it again soon.

I have never worked with PEX tubing before. Don't you need special tools?
My choices are PVC or galvanized. And I don't know about using PVC.
Although the line to the well house is PVC.
I have time to give this issue some thought and decide.

Pooh Bear

 

[JC-jetro]

I have never worked with PEX tubing before. Don't you need special tools?
My choices are PVC or galvanized. And I don't know about using PVC.
Although the line to the well house is PVC.
I have time to give this issue some thought and decide.

Pooh Bear

Pooh,

For PEX you'd need to have the right crimper and they can be a bit pricey. PEX would last a very long time, hardly anything stick to it on the inside and is flexible (relatively speaking). Gas companies have started replacing all their pipes with the PEX. Galvanized pipe is for sure a bad choice. PVC is the easiest choice as you can by sticks of 20 foot "push on type" with the inner o-ring system. It is pretty good choice as long as it is buried (UV is not good for PVC). you'll need to transition it to copper (type K, soft drawn) to bring it inside the building. On push on PVC pipe one side is male and the other side is female and you just put togethere as you go with some lubricant at the joint before they are pushed together.. hack saw is all you need.

JC,

 

[charlz]

I don't think you are going to want anything less than 1" ID, that is a long run and the larger diameter will give you better flow/pressure. Can you use HDPE pipe? laying a continuous roll would be a lot easier than joining lots of short sections. I would avoid galvanized pipe... it _is_ going to corrode.

Don't forget to test it before you bury it

Charles

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I have never worked with PEX tubing before. Don't you need special tools?
My choices are PVC or galvanized. And I don't know about using PVC.
Although the line to the well house is PVC.
I have time to give this issue some thought and decide.

Pooh Bear

I would vote for PEX. It's durable, and it's flexible, which really comes in handy if your trench needs to go around a boulder or something. It is a little tricky to get to lay flat sometimes. It also is smoother on the inside than metal pipe, so it delivers more water all other things being equal.

PEX comes in a spool, so you should only need two fittings, one for each end. The only tool you need is a crimper. They start at about $120. If that's too much for your budget, I have a little tool called a "clamp crimper" that was about $30. It's designed for close quarters, where a normal crimper won't fit. It's just two pieces of metal with a hole between them, held together by two bolts; it's slightly bigger than a credit card. You put the fitting in the hole and turn the bolts with a wrench, and it crimps the fitting. You wouldn't want to use it to do a whole house, because it's slow, but for two fittings you'd do OK.


Almost anything is better than galvanized, with our water you're lucky to get 20 years in interior installations, even less buried. And galvanized dies an agonizing death, where it clogs with rust and the ends become brittle, so every time you go to fix something it breaks in three more places.

 

[charlz]

I know my local Home Depot rents the smaller PEX crimper. I think the small one was $10 for 4 hours or something. I think if you use a size of PEX they sell that they will also rent the crimper.

Charles

 

[JC-jetro]

Just FYI,

Crimper that is used on 2" dia PEX for fuel distribution with interstitial space for fuel leakage monitoring.

Crimping machine crimping a male threaded fitting.

Crimper machine that actually expand the fitting internally against the inner wall of the PEX. Pex can be butt welded (heat fused ) also.

crimping the fitting on to end of the pipe. Green is the outer wall. The same PEX colored yellow is used for gas distribution as well.

 

[hsvhobbit]

Please think hard about the galvanized pipe. In my experience it's gonna rust out pretty quick and then you've got it to do all over again. The flexible black plastic pipe is not bad to work with at all, nor is the PVC. One plus to either is that I've heard and read of accounts where you can attach the end of the pipe to your middlebuster and drag it all underground in one run, no further digging on your part required.

If you use the black plastic (HDPE?) once trick I've found is that if you use a torch to heat up the end, the barbed fittings go in easy and slick, without a torch, it's a major pain to get the fittings in.

 

[Pooh_Bear]

Ok, you have convinced me to not use galvanized.
And I will use 1 inch pipe from the water meter.
That leaves PVC and PEX. The gas company here uses PEX.
I watched them put my line in. They heat fused everything.

The city is extending water lines out by us.
Right across the road from me, but I'm on a corner
and they won't be going down the road to my parents house.
And after last year's drought they want to hook up too.
We were almost 20 inches behind on rainfall and wells around
us were going dry. This year it is supposed to be even worse.

I got some calling around to do for tools and materials.

Pooh Bear

 

[Harry c]

Hi Pooh,
The gas line is usually polyethylene pipe. They weld it together with hot air. It's a lot like the black poly pipe. The main water lines are likely to be PVC. Either of these pipes will last "forever" under the ground. You can definitely pull either of these in with a subsoiler. I pulled in up to 200 ft of 1 inch PVC at a time for my irrigation system. I used the 20 ft glue together stuff and glued my "pull" together on top of the ground stretched back from my starting point. That way it was just a continuous pull with no stops. I also pulled 100 ft of 1 1/2 inch, again no problem. Make sure you pull the subsoiler through once to break the ground and make sure you don't have any rocks or roots that will stop you once you start your pull. If that happens you'll get some practice with the shovel. If your ground permits, pulling is far easier than trenching with anything. There's basically no backfilling and it barely tears up any of the grass. I