Mirror, mirror on the wall who is the fairest
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Gatorboy
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Boy am I disappointed. Here I saw CowboyDoc and Junkman posting in this thread, and I came in looking for photos -- no such luck. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
cowboydoc
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I looked but I don't have any pics here on my office computer. I'll try and get some tomorrow. You can go to my website and see some of me and my family.
Inspector507
Super Member
cowboydoc,
If the picture I saw with CASH was you and your family..... That is one beautiful animal and the family was a treat to see. Now you on the other hand......... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just teasing you, my friend. Great site and pics.
And thanks.
If the picture I saw with CASH was you and your family..... That is one beautiful animal and the family was a treat to see. Now you on the other hand......... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just teasing you, my friend. Great site and pics.
And thanks.
Hunting for meat does not bother me, I used to do it! I have a deer head on my wall also, but I ate the meat, mounted the head and donated the skin to a group that helps kids.........
As for the leopard, that is where I have a hard time, in fact to the point of thinking hunting for sport ONLY should be outlawed. I fail to see how baiting an animal, then shooting it makes one feel big, especially one as wonderful as an exotic cat. I feel the same way with Cougar hunters, must take a big man to run a cat up a tree with a dog then shoot it.
When I hunted, it was for meat and we did no baiting, no tricking, nothing, we simply came into the prey's surroundings. I would not have done it any other way!
As for the money, they could "hunt" the animal with a camera and everyone would win!
Finally, I am not against hunting, not in the least, just against the taking of an animal that will not be used for food, but instead is only a trophy.
As for the leopard, that is where I have a hard time, in fact to the point of thinking hunting for sport ONLY should be outlawed. I fail to see how baiting an animal, then shooting it makes one feel big, especially one as wonderful as an exotic cat. I feel the same way with Cougar hunters, must take a big man to run a cat up a tree with a dog then shoot it.
When I hunted, it was for meat and we did no baiting, no tricking, nothing, we simply came into the prey's surroundings. I would not have done it any other way!
As for the money, they could "hunt" the animal with a camera and everyone would win!
Finally, I am not against hunting, not in the least, just against the taking of an animal that will not be used for food, but instead is only a trophy.
that is a cool website. my wife would go nuts on the horses, she wants one so bad. We only have about an acre now, so no horse, but i know she would trade me for one in a second. trouble is she would have to pay someone to take me, and pay them for the horse too!
gsganzer
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I understand your view and you're certainly entitled to express it. However, you're missing a few key points.
First, as I stated before, all the game taken in Africa feeds the natives directly or indirectly. Virtually all of the animals provide meat that is consumed by the camp, we ate our game around the campfire every night.
Your correct in assuming that not all animals are hunted for the meat. The zebra was one example, it's edible but not very palatable. However, like any game, they must be culled and thinned to prevent the destruction of habitat and the decline of the herd. Yes, this involves trophy hunting and in the case of this zebra it's meat was used for baiting a leopard.
When it comes to leopard hunting (and certain other species), they're harvest is closely regulated by the Council of International Trade of Endangered Species (CITES). This limits the number of animals taken and restricts the trade of any parts (hides, ivory etc.) The fees collected by CITES permits, ensures the preservation of habitat for said species and pays for protection against poaching. Leopards, like the zebra, require occasional thinning to maintain the health of the species. In the case of dangerous game such as leopard and lion, the numbers of animals are also controlled for human safety.
Yes, leopard are usually baited. They're nocturnal and you wouldn't want to walk around in the bush hoping to bump into one. Is it sporting? Absolutely. Is hunting ducks over decoys or doves over a grain field any different? That's the only reliable way to get the game in range to take it cleanly and humanely. All taking of game in Africa must be done with the employ of a Professional Hunter (PH). It's the duty of the PH to ensure that all game is taken in a sporting way, injured animals are pursued to the fullest extent possible and the game, natives and landowners are respected. They take this very seriously. My particular zebra was singled out by the PH and we tracked him for 2 days through mopane bushes.
I understand your disdain for "trophy hunting". You're right, it doesn't sound right on the surface. However, it's not quite what it appears. If people are willing to pay to do the culling, why shouldn't the governments take advantage of it? You can call it "trophy hunting" or any other name, it doesn't change the fact that it's culling, closely regulated and required. All of the fees associated with taking a leopard are upwards of $6,000. This money pays for the social services of the natives and preservation of habitat. Otherwise the animals destroy their habitat, endanger humans and die of starvation. What do the natives get when this is allowed to happen? More starvation, disease and hopelessness.
A prime example are the elephants of Kruger National Park in South Africa. The number of elephants now exceeds the ability of the habitat to maintain them, resulting in starvation and die-off. The government will be instituting a culling operation, to be done by government game officials. Yes, they'll completely render the animal for all of it's usable parts, as should be the case. However, they're losing the oppurtunity to reap the benefits of "trophy hunters". Elephants fetch a trophy fee in the range of $10,000 - $40,000. That money could be used to buy additional elephant habitat to increase the population.
I agree with you 100%, somebody shooting an animal just to hang it on a wall or walk on it as a rug, without any other purpose or benefit is wrong and unethical. But as I said before, it's not just "trophy hunting".
I apologize to the original poster for this thread heading into the political/ethical abyss. No hard feelings meant and none taken.
First, as I stated before, all the game taken in Africa feeds the natives directly or indirectly. Virtually all of the animals provide meat that is consumed by the camp, we ate our game around the campfire every night.
Your correct in assuming that not all animals are hunted for the meat. The zebra was one example, it's edible but not very palatable. However, like any game, they must be culled and thinned to prevent the destruction of habitat and the decline of the herd. Yes, this involves trophy hunting and in the case of this zebra it's meat was used for baiting a leopard.
When it comes to leopard hunting (and certain other species), they're harvest is closely regulated by the Council of International Trade of Endangered Species (CITES). This limits the number of animals taken and restricts the trade of any parts (hides, ivory etc.) The fees collected by CITES permits, ensures the preservation of habitat for said species and pays for protection against poaching. Leopards, like the zebra, require occasional thinning to maintain the health of the species. In the case of dangerous game such as leopard and lion, the numbers of animals are also controlled for human safety.
Yes, leopard are usually baited. They're nocturnal and you wouldn't want to walk around in the bush hoping to bump into one. Is it sporting? Absolutely. Is hunting ducks over decoys or doves over a grain field any different? That's the only reliable way to get the game in range to take it cleanly and humanely. All taking of game in Africa must be done with the employ of a Professional Hunter (PH). It's the duty of the PH to ensure that all game is taken in a sporting way, injured animals are pursued to the fullest extent possible and the game, natives and landowners are respected. They take this very seriously. My particular zebra was singled out by the PH and we tracked him for 2 days through mopane bushes.
I understand your disdain for "trophy hunting". You're right, it doesn't sound right on the surface. However, it's not quite what it appears. If people are willing to pay to do the culling, why shouldn't the governments take advantage of it? You can call it "trophy hunting" or any other name, it doesn't change the fact that it's culling, closely regulated and required. All of the fees associated with taking a leopard are upwards of $6,000. This money pays for the social services of the natives and preservation of habitat. Otherwise the animals destroy their habitat, endanger humans and die of starvation. What do the natives get when this is allowed to happen? More starvation, disease and hopelessness.
A prime example are the elephants of Kruger National Park in South Africa. The number of elephants now exceeds the ability of the habitat to maintain them, resulting in starvation and die-off. The government will be instituting a culling operation, to be done by government game officials. Yes, they'll completely render the animal for all of it's usable parts, as should be the case. However, they're losing the oppurtunity to reap the benefits of "trophy hunters". Elephants fetch a trophy fee in the range of $10,000 - $40,000. That money could be used to buy additional elephant habitat to increase the population.
I agree with you 100%, somebody shooting an animal just to hang it on a wall or walk on it as a rug, without any other purpose or benefit is wrong and unethical. But as I said before, it's not just "trophy hunting".
I apologize to the original poster for this thread heading into the political/ethical abyss. No hard feelings meant and none taken.
