9973720wb19
Platinum Member
Green Coolent was low...dealer sold me Orange coolent...said the orange could be mixed; it was just environmentally better. This was on a JD 3720...was this okay to do?
Mixing coolents colors?
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mostly_gas
Super Member
I am told the normal green coolant (2 year life) and the normal orange coolant (5 year life) are not compatible. The result is often "jellied" coolant. There is a pale green "universal" coolant that should mix with either kind.
Spudland_Dave
Veteran Member
Ran into the same thing not too long ago, my 3520 left Momma Deere with Cool-Gard in it. JD Changed from Cool-Gard to Cool-Gard II...
https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5686_fb_AntiFreezeCoolGard.htm
As for the reason for change.....its a technically better coolant, Color is different to make identifying the coolant easier.
Quote from the FAQ:
Can I top-off with Cool-Gard II if my system has Cool-Gard as factory fill?
Yes. A mixture of Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II is acceptable as these coolants are compatible. This response is based on knowing the detailed chemistry of each product and the fact that the following mixtures of Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II, 3:1, 2:1, 1:1, 1:2 & 1:3 by volume, were mixed together and performance tested against
ASTM D1384, the glassware corrosion test all tests passed
ASTM D4340, the heat rejecting aluminum test all tests passed
The same would be true if a dealer or customer uses Cool-Gard to top-off a new 2009 model delivered with Cool-Gard II.
https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5686_fb_AntiFreezeCoolGard.htm
As for the reason for change.....its a technically better coolant, Color is different to make identifying the coolant easier.
Quote from the FAQ:
Can I top-off with Cool-Gard II if my system has Cool-Gard as factory fill?
Yes. A mixture of Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II is acceptable as these coolants are compatible. This response is based on knowing the detailed chemistry of each product and the fact that the following mixtures of Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II, 3:1, 2:1, 1:1, 1:2 & 1:3 by volume, were mixed together and performance tested against
ASTM D1384, the glassware corrosion test all tests passed
ASTM D4340, the heat rejecting aluminum test all tests passed
The same would be true if a dealer or customer uses Cool-Gard to top-off a new 2009 model delivered with Cool-Gard II.
OP
9973720wb19
Platinum Member
Dave - thank you. It's always nice when someone has had the same issue/task to deal with. 9973720wb19/Mike
cowpie1
Silver Member
Just a note in all this. I use the same stuff that I use in the Cummins ISX in my semi. By far the best coolant out there is the newer ELC (red) that you can get at truck stops and truck dealers. It is an OAT type formulation that is specifically designed to eliminate cylinder liner cavitation and it requires no SCA additives. Price isn't bad compared to other stuff. It is a long life coolant.
fieldserviceengineer
Bronze Member
Depends on the model year your Cummins ISX was built. Up until about a year and a half back, no ISX could operate with the OAT coolant from Shell, Chevron (Texaco) or use CAT ELC OAT. The issue was the organic acid inhibitor used in these coolants, 2-ethyl hexanoic acid. It has a proven track record on attacking silicon rubber elastomers such as found in ISX engine coolant gaskets and silicon rubber coolant hose liner. After the change in 2008, I can research the engine serial number, Cummins changed from using silicon rubber to an elastomer called HNBR, a top level fluoro elastomer. It is not damaged by that OAT acid.
When you say it needs no SCA additives, you better read your OAT coolant literature closer. If you can keep it in the cooling system, it will require the use of an extender liquid at 300,000 miles. I say "IF" because typical on-highway trucks leak the entire volume of the cooling system (12 gallons on an ISX) in about 16 months. You will be replacing this coolant on an ongoing basis. Keep that in mind when thinking of it as a "long life" coolant. You will not achieve long life because of leakage issues. It is not just OAT coolants but all coolants that have this issue in typical on-highway trucks.
It is not any more specifically formulated to prevent/reduce liner cavitation pitting than any other coolant that meets ASTM D6210. It is just another choice.
Also, the above listed OAT coolant manufacturers say you do not need to test your coolant SCA level. That would be true if you never refill low coolant levels with any coolant that does not contain a healthy dose of SCA. OAT coolants claim they do not have SCA but they do, they just prefer to call it something else. If you use a test strip like Fleetguard CC2602, you will find your OAT coolant has nitrite and molybdate. If your OAT coolant is a product called Final Charge, then you will not find anything with the test strips. Then you need to be concerned that another similar looking coolant like DEXCOOL could be used to top off low coolant levels. Final Charge can protect against cavitation pitting, DEXCOOL is worthless at that task. Better to test and know that you have protection (providing you are using Shell Rotella ELC, Chevron Delo ELC or CAT ELC.
Under the right operating and equipment conditions, OAT coolants do well. They do not do well when any and everybody is refilling the coolant level. Too much opportunity to refill with the wrong coolant but of similar color. The above listed OAT coolants (except Final Charge) should never be used in a system that has lead solder as it is well capable of attacking solder and causing leaks. Neither are these coolant particularly good in high coolant flow systems in protecting aluminum surfaces. This becomes even more critical when the coolant is diluted with too much water. High water content coolants and aluminum surfaces are not a good match at all.
The idea that OAT coolants need the organic acid technology to achieve long coolant life is not a technical fact but is a statement from aggressive marketing and sales groups bent on creating a market for what is "just another coolant product choice".
fieldserviceengineer
Bronze Member
About mixing of coolant colors: your dealer is correct, coolants of different colors can be mixed. In another post some one stated that mixing cause gelation (thickening) of the coolant. NOT TRUE. Psuedo "facts" like that are the stories made up by marketing and sales in order to scare you into staying with their product. OAT coolants and conventional chemistry coolants all utilize ethylene glycol as the base antifreeze product. The difference is the inhibitors. Color is only a dye to act as the identifier to some degree. However, you cannot trust color of coolant to mean anything. The only issue with mixing coolants of different colors is that sometimes when you mix enough of some colors you get a very unappealing brown. Look at it like this; mix green Kool Aid with red Kool Aid and you get a nasty looking brown but if both were formulated with the same chemical additives (sugar and water), the resulting mix still tastes the same, just does not look good. Engine coolants are no different. Providing the brown color is not from rust or highly heat aged propylene glycol, then there are no worries.
At first the OAT coolant company that started all this, Texaco, told customers that mixing causes bad things to happen to the system and to the parts. Just a scare tactic. No truth what so ever. Later when customers pushed back because they could not always refill with the original Texaco OAT coolant and threatened to not buy any more, Texaco softened their stance considerably started to 'allow' mixing.......more marketing and sales, no technical basis to what they were saying.
fieldserviceengineer
Bronze Member
Depends on the model year your Cummins ISX was built. Up until about a year and a half back, no ISX could operate with the OAT coolant from Shell, Chevron (Texaco) or use CAT ELC OAT. The issue was the organic acid inhibitor used in these coolants, 2-ethyl hexanoic acid. It has a proven track record on attacking silicon rubber elastomers such as found in ISX engine coolant gaskets and silicon rubber coolant hose liner. After the change in 2008, I can research the engine serial number, Cummins changed from using silicon rubber to an elastomer called HNBR, a top level fluoro elastomer. It is not damaged by that OAT acid.
When you say it needs no SCA additives, you better read your OAT coolant literature closer. If you can keep it in the cooling system, it will require the use of an extender liquid at 300,000 miles. I say "IF" because typical on-highway trucks leak the entire volume of the cooling system (12 gallons on an ISX) in about 16 months. You will be replacing this coolant on an ongoing basis. Keep that in mind when thinking of it as a "long life" coolant. You will not achieve long life because of leakage issues. It is not just OAT coolants but all coolants that have this issue in typical on-highway trucks.
It is not any more specifically formulated to prevent/reduce liner cavitation pitting than any other coolant that meets ASTM D6210. It is just another choice.
Also, the above listed OAT coolant manufacturers say you do not need to test your coolant SCA level. That would be true if you never refill low coolant levels with any coolant that does not contain a healthy dose of SCA. OAT coolants claim they do not have SCA but they do, they just prefer to call it something else. If you use a test strip like Fleetguard CC2602, you will find your OAT coolant has nitrite and molybdate. If your OAT coolant is a product called Final Charge, then you will not find anything with the test strips. Then you need to be concerned that another similar looking coolant like DEXCOOL could be used to top off low coolant levels. Final Charge can protect against cavitation pitting, DEXCOOL is worthless at that task. Better to test and know that you have protection (providing you are using Shell Rotella ELC, Chevron Delo ELC or CAT ELC.
Under the right operating and equipment conditions, OAT coolants do well. They do not do well when any and everybody is refilling the coolant level. Too much opportunity to refill with the wrong coolant but of similar color. The above listed OAT coolants (except Final Charge) should never be used in a system that has lead solder as it is well capable of attacking solder and causing leaks. Neither are these coolant particularly good in high coolant flow systems in protecting aluminum surfaces. This becomes even more critical when the coolant is diluted with too much water. High water content coolants and aluminum surfaces are not a good match at all.
The idea that OAT coolants need the organic acid technology to achieve long coolant life is not a technical fact but is a statement from aggressive marketing and sales groups bent on creating a market for what is "just another coolant product choice".
Deano
Veteran Member
C'mon guys !! We are reading way into this!!
Green=John Deere coolant
Orange=Kubota coolant
Couldn't be any simpler!!
Deano
Green=John Deere coolant
Orange=Kubota coolant
Couldn't be any simpler!!
Deano
fieldserviceengineer
Bronze Member
C'mon guys !! We are reading way into this!!
Green=John Deere coolant
Orange=Kubota coolant
Couldn't be any simpler!!
Deano
Deano,
Sorry, it is not that simple. There is much more to this than that. Perhaps you think that Kubota coolant is the only orange-dyed product.....NOT! Green dye only in John Deere?............NOT! What color coolant is in GM vehicles?....orange but not the same chemistry unless it is also similar or the same as GM Dexcool. John Deere Cool Guard II is no longer green, it is now yellow.
RavensRoost
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2006
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- 316
- Tractor
- John Deere 4500 and Mule 3010 (gas)
Me thinks Deano was offering up humor.
OP
9973720wb19
Platinum Member
thanks feildservice guy...I'm a believer! Mike
Deano
Veteran Member
eazyduzzit
Bronze Member
I have been selling truck parts for the last 30 years, and have seen and heard a lot of rumors about coolants. You can mix them.
The one cowpie bought for his ISX was probably a pre-mix that had other additives added to it. Fleetguard sells several mixes and so does Caterpillar. Those additives prevent liner cavitation.
The one cowpie bought for his ISX was probably a pre-mix that had other additives added to it. Fleetguard sells several mixes and so does Caterpillar. Those additives prevent liner cavitation.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
C'mon guys !! We are reading way into this!!
Green=John Deere coolant
Orange=Kubota coolant
Couldn't be any simpler!!
Deano
Ruh Roh Scubby. I think I messed up. I put JD coolant in my Ford truck. Does Ford have a blue coolant?
What is really sad is I can't remember the color of ANY of the coolant.
Just that the Ford and JD coolant was the same type but different colors. Later,
Dan
fieldserviceengineer
Bronze Member
C'mon guys !! We are reading way into this!!
Green=John Deere coolant
Orange=Kubota coolant
Couldn't be any simpler!!
Deano
Boy, Did I ever miss that one! Well, DUH!, Gary. Deano, you sense of humor blew right past me and I failed to catch that. You are right.....what could be simpler!!
Kind regards,
Gary Spires
Deano
Veteran Member
Boy, Did I ever miss that one! Well, DUH!, Gary. Deano, you sense of humor blew right past me and I failed to catch that. You are right.....what could be simpler!!
Kind regards,
Gary Spires
Glad you caught that Gary! I tried to add some humor!!
Deano
