Mixing oils.........

[rja]

To all of the oil/chemical experts: I changed the hydro oil in a ZTR mower and switched to Amsoil syntheitc. This was blessed by both the engine and mower manfgs. While changing this fluid, I also changed the heavy gear oil on the cutting deck (also with syntheitc). Now the problem, since both weights of oil came in the same type of container; (size, and color), I added 6qts of 20/50 and .5qt of 80/90 oil to the hydro system. I also ran the machine after the change and before I realized the screw up. After my enlightenment, I pulled off 1qt of oil from the machine and replaced it with 20/50. I know that the 80/90 oil has EP additives that if used in the engine will convert to corrosive matierals. Since the hydro system will not have any water or gasses contamination, am I ok here? What are your recommendations? Thanks.

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

<font color=blue>To all of the oil/chemical experts:</font color=blue>

That ain't me, but that has never stopped me before.

Why take a chance for the cost of 6.5 quarts? I think I would also pull the filter and drain it also.

 

[MChalkley]

I agree. Those two types of oils are radically different - mixing them could have serious side effects. I'd drain it and start over. Bummer.

MarkC

 

[Bird]

I'm one of those non-experts who really doubts that 8% of the wrong oil would make much difference in this case. However, if it were my machine, I just wouldn't be able to bring myself to take a chance; I'd have to drain it out and start over.

Bird<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Bird on 12/5/00 12:30 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[lschultz]

Change oil/filter again.This time pay attention to what you are doing.Never did anything like that.But nobody is perfect.I think you made a good choice with Amsoil.

Larry Schultz

 

[rja]

I would have been ok except the AMSOIL containers are the same shape, size, color. The labels are SLIGHTLY different, but you have to take a close look to see it. I am not trying to pull a GORE here, but I doubt I am the only one to do this. However, after making a suggesstion to the AMSOIL dealer to modify their packaging, I ordered 6 more qts of the 20/50 oil at my expense. Rich.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

rja, In the gearbox it would not hurt for sure, there is a good chance being full synthetic it would not hurt anything and both are compatible with all the seals, just 8% is not very much of a blend. I would run it and change it sooner next time. I have mixed regular oil with Amzoil which you can do anytime. In aircraft we run 50-50 mix especially after the initial 50 hour run with non-detergent to seat the rings, then 50-50 amsoil till 300 hours then full strength. This oil is also bio-degradable so you do not have to worry about disposing of it (by law) pour it on the grass and will not even kill that. gary

 

[Bird]

Gary, are you saying that Amsoil is bio-degradable and can just be dumped on the ground? I don't know the chemical makeup of Amsoil, but that was something I wondered about and thought that might be a reason to change to synthetics, but what I've been able to read so far led me to think you have the same disposal problem with synthetics as you have with petroleum oil.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird, Thats rite 100 % biodegradable, all of their products are and no disposal problems like we are experianceing with the EPA. These products are all man made estors and no petroleum products in them. I am a dealer but only to get my own products at a resonable cost as I use the products in at least 20 units I run. I have found the initial cost of the product is more but when you factor the 500 degree highr temp ratings and -70 below pour point, and longer oil change intervals it is actually cheaper in the long haul. If you are thinking of using this product it cost very little to become a dealer and buy wholesale, any dealer in your area can get you started. I find oil and a few other topics can turn real ugly on the net so I do not argu with anyone because whatever a person has good luck with use it. gary

 

[Bird]

Hmmm, Gary, if all their products are bio-degradable, why do they only list one particular oil as bio-degradable on their web site? I've done a lot of reading on their site as well as a number of others, and except for that one particular oil (not the one I'd be using), I haven't found anything to indicate disposal is any less of a problem with the synthetics than with petroleum oil. I'm one of those old fashioned fellows who, while believing synthetics are good, still seriously doubts that the synthetics are worth the extra cost. HOWEVER, if it's safe to pour out on the ground after use, I'll change to it.

Bird

 

[MChalkley]

I'm a little confused by the suggestion that Amsoil can be dumped on the ground. I'm going to do some research on the subject, but I strongly doubt this is the case.

For one thing, many of the by-products of combustion are carcinogens, so regardless of whether the fresh oil is safe to dump on the ground or not, I don't see how used oil could possibly be safe to dispose of by pouring it on the ground.

MarkC

 

[Bird]

I can't say that I really thoroughly researched the question, and my knowledge of chemistry is quite limited, but a year or so ago, one of my interests was just what raw materials are mixed and how are they processed to make the synthetics, and especially what are the environmental aspects? What little information I found led me to believe that while synthetics might be a little bit more environmentally friendly, basically you have the same disposal concerns that you have with petroleum lubricants. Now if that conclusion should prove wrong, and I can safely dump my used oils in the pasture, I'll promptly change my car, pickup, and tractor to Amsoil.

Bird

 

[DFB]

Bird, this link is AMSOILS view enviroment article

 

[Bird]

Thanks, DFB. I knew I had read that and don't know why I couldn't find it again yesterday. It states pretty clearly what I remembered from the past; you CANNOT dump it on the ground.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird, I made a quick phone call for more info, yes I was wrong!! They have tested (which is a three year test with food and drug dept.) and certified their grease that are used for food machines, synthetic 2 cycle oil, and a couple others, the actual oil is still in the test parimiters and not certified yet as I had thought. Any petroleum oil product you will dye if you drank it, synthetic made with estors would just give you severe diarea, just because of the cleaning additives such as Casteroil and other additives, the actual oil would not hurt you, so bottom line is they are working on different additives to make it not harmfull, when that will actually happen is anyones guess. But sorry for the confusion, and I stand corrected. gary

 

[Bird]

Gary, I was hoping you were right . . .. Maybe someday. I wouldn't even care if it killed the grass; I'd pour it along the fence rows and have less weed trimming to do if it were just safe for the environment.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Mark, good point about the combustion by-products in the oil being toxic. This is a point usually overlooked. In addition oil additives can be toxic as well, and materials that wear in the engine end up in the oil. It is for these reasons that I would not want a waste oil furnace. The heavy metals, etc can end up in the soil in your yard after they settle out of the exhaust gas from the furnace.

Andy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird, In doing more research, I find out that the hydraulic fluid # ISO-32/46 SAE 5W-20 TBI-05 Synthetic Bio-degradable Hydraulic oil. This was made by Amsoil with the purpose of using on golfcourses as not to destroy the turf. This is the oil I will put in my tractor. But as yet the engine oil is not approved as some have stated on other posts. This would be an excellent oil for the loader ect here in the cold country. gary

 

[Bird]

Gary, I noticed they had that one bio-degradable oil. I don't know how that compares to their other hydraulic oils or to Kubota UDT and Super UDT. If it works as well as the other, then why make both?

Bird