more disc'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

Soundguy · Nov 15, 2004

more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

First... this is meant to be light hearted discussion/observation... not fuel for gear vs hydro flame wars... ( ok guys? )

After reading a couple of the tractor subs for the last week, it seems there has been a decent amount of failures arising on the hydro and shuttle trannies resulting from simple things such as loose wires, or wires that are run in precarious location under a tractor where mud, brush, and debri are IMHO very likely to snag on these wires.

Also noted was the difficulty in diagnosing the problem, when the unit wouldn't move at all, or not move in one direction.. or when some ominous 'disengaged light was on.. or some non-descript error code displayed.

The very thought that an important wire would be run in such a way that it can be snatched out by brush so easilly baffles me. One poster wrote that they got under their tractor and found a wire connection pulled apart. Now.. it may just be me.. but I think the engineer that built that was smoking something he shouldn't have been. After all... a tractor is pretty much the epitome of 'heavy duty rugged service vehicle'. It is meant to tear thru underbrush and light debri.. etc. wires hanging out all over it seem... um... like poor design? no?

For those of us plain 'gear' tranny people.. we need to remember this the next time the heat gets turned up by the hydro and shuttle people. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Soundguy

JerryG · Nov 15, 2004

Re: more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

I think the engineer that built that was smoking something he shouldn't have been.
I think that pretty well summed it up. The underside of a lot or should I say almost all compact and also some of the smaller utility tractors have wiring and also small lines in harms way under the belly of the tractor. You would think that the engineers would have planned ahead, but they haven't.

thcri · Nov 15, 2004

Re: more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

I think most engineers do put the extra effort in seeing that this type of stuff doesn't happen. The engineers ( I am not one) tend to over design for the most part. Now I know you all are shaking your head at me wondering where I am coming from. But we all need to understand the most manufactures have engineers, but they also have engineers that take a product after it has been designed and will cut it back to make it competitive. In other words they will take a design and look at things that they think are over engineering it and cut it back. So when I see something stupid, I typically will yell out at the manufacture, not the engineer.

murph

1bush2hog · Nov 15, 2004

Re: more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

You mean you haven't seen that new belly mount skid plate that NH is offering as an accessory? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I went with the 'power shuttle' for ease of use, which it is when it is working /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

hazmat · Nov 15, 2004

Re: more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

 In other words they will take a design and look at things that they think are over engineering it and cut it back. So when I see something stupid, I typically will yell out at the manufacture, not the engineer. 

Thanks for the support. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The engineers want to make it bullet-proof. But you couldn't afford it if we did. So we end up somewhere in the middle - ie you can afford it, but you've got to fix it once in a while.

jinman · Nov 15, 2004

Re: more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

Did ya'll hear about the Texas A&M Aggie engineer who designed a plate metal brush guard for his headlights? He said it worked really good during daylight testing... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

thcri · Nov 15, 2004

Re: more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

( Did ya'll hear about the Texas A&M Aggie engineer who designed a plate metal brush guard for his headlights? He said it worked really good during daylight testing... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

A thousand comedians out of work and Jinman is trying to be funny?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Soundguy · Nov 15, 2004

Re: more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

Thcri and Haz touched on this.. and it rings pretty true. While their are alot of under engineered designs.. I'm quite sure there are designs that were engineered well, and a bean counter somewhere decided that 'all that extra stuff' wasn't necescary.

After thought and retrofit ideas are also generally kludges. You can pretty much tell when you had a good design.. and at the last minute the upper management decided it needed this 'x' function added, and you then go from an elegant sturdy design to one with an awkward wire hanging out the bottom of the tranny, and a coolant line at the lower end of the frame. and a bunch of filters between the lower section of the tire/fender and the wheel well.

So I take it back... only half the time is it an engineer-headspace problem.. and the other half is a management/bean counter-headspace problem or as we call it .. a 'recto-cranial' inversion.. ...as in.. I'd like to see it from your point of view.. but can't get my head that farm.. um.. down there.. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I like the headlight guard idea.

Soundguy

jinman · Nov 15, 2004

Re: more disc\'n on plain gear trany vs shuttle / hydro

( A thousand comedians out of work and Jinman is trying to be funny?? )

Actually, I'm not an Aggie, but I've designed a few things that were more cumbersome to deal with than the problem they were supposed to fix. I've had my tractor in some pretty wild brush and no wires were jerked loose, but I did punch a hole in my hydrostatic transmission oil filter. I figure if there was a guard for that, I'd probably curse it everytime I had to change the filter. My point is that sometimes the "cure" is worse than the "disease." /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif