More tractor buying advice.

[shoppintractors]

Kioti has been moving this past weekend into a new, much expanded building in NC. I would look for the website to be back up and running very soon.

Don

 

[JayC]

I just noticed your reply above mine. Kioti's website has been down for going on a few days now. I know it was at least down on Saturday. I heard it was down on Thursday as well. I am just hoping they are preparing a big update. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Little Tractor is the only dealer site that I know of that has some specs on their site about Kioti machines. I am sure some other dealers have specs on their sites, too.

Little Tractor

You can use their price guides to find the specs and some more photos, etc. Since the new policy Kioti came up with regarding prices, their price guide is actually less useful when pricing Kioti items. They do list a whole bunch of other items, though.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It seem like the next step up would cost me about 25% more... )</font>
You should be able to get a Kioti CK20HST with loader for around the same price or LESS. A Kioti LB 1914, mechanical shuttle shift with loader for even less. These are both CUTs, with good 3pt hitch lift capacities with plenty of power. I've found that many people find so many more uses for the tractor after purchase than they ever imagined before hand. Some implements for the different SCUTs can cost more than standard models as they are more specialized for the "sometimes" more limited hitches. John

 

[stuart]

noTractoryet: In response to your PS:YES, you can get a toothbar for a JD FEL. I have a 430 and ordered one through Carver Equipment. They will want to know the size of the FEL when you contact them. Cost about 300$ with shipping.

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

Bob, Yankee, I tend to agree with TBrown. The Kioti CK20 and Mahindra 2015 are really in a class by themselves. I do this because of construction/weight. Granted, the big 3 make machines (TC21, B7500, JD4010) that compete with the first 2. A quick glance will show the difference. The Kubota and JD (My NH dealer also sold Kubotas, he didn't recomend NH for some reason, maybe no stock) are built on a 'C' channel ladder type frame just like their lawn mowers. The engine, tranny, axels, are bolted to the frame. The Kioti and Mahindra are built with a center cast iron tube type frame like the 'old school' tractors. The engine, tranny, axels are the frame.

The big 3 look like they are more ment for lawn mowing type work and with some FEL/dirt work thrown in. The Mahindra and Kioti look like they are ment for FEL/dirt work, and some mowing thrown in. I am not saying that makes one better than the other, just in a different class, ie they will appeal to a markets with different end uses.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Bob, Yankee, I tend to agree with TBrown. The Kioti CK20 and Mahindra 2015 are really in a class by themselves. I do this because of construction/weight. Granted, the big 3 make machines (TC21, B7500, JD4010) that compete with the first 2. A quick glance will show the difference. The Kubota and JD (My NH dealer also sold Kubotas, he didn't recomend NH for some reason, maybe no stock) are built on a 'C' channel ladder type frame just like their lawn mowers. The engine, tranny, axels, are bolted to the frame. The Kioti and Mahindra are built with a center cast iron tube type frame like the 'old school' tractors. The engine, tranny, axels are the frame.

The big 3 look like they are more ment for lawn mowing type work and with some FEL/dirt work thrown in. The Mahindra and Kioti look like they are ment for FEL/dirt work, and some mowing thrown in. I am not saying that makes one better than the other, just in a different class, ie they will appeal to a markets with different end uses. )</font>

Charlie, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but it obviously is a small point.

Funny that you are arguing that the CK20 is different than the TC21/B7500 on the basis that it weighs more/is more heavily constructed; therefore fitting it into a LARGER size class? Many people seem to place the CK20 in the Sub-CUT category, which is diametrically opposed to the arguement you are bringing forth. There was even a thread a while back that lamented the fact that the CK20 is not considered a competitor to the JD2210 or the BX Kubotas on their respective websites (and I can't imagine anyone arguring that those are not Sub-CUTs).

I tend to think of the CK20 as a small frame CUT simply because of the size. Your issue of weight is interesting, but the physical size is still pretty much the same as every other small frame CUT so I think it is a small frame CUT. I do agree with you that different tractors fit different niches in the market. The CK20 probably is the least suitable for mowing, but perhaps much more suitable for dirt work, than any other small frame unit simply because of the weight factors.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you have some big jobs, you can always rely on rentals )</font>

Naa... that's what a second tractor is for! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Get a cheap big older domestic tractor for the heavy stuff..

Soundguy

 

[Yankee]

Bob, I largely agree. Where it comes to the weight differences, I'd said "it depends." If someone buys a Kubota B and fills the tires, the comparison to the CK20, unfilled, doesn't yield a spit's worth of difference. If the Kioti owner opts to fill his, of course, it might yield a slightly better dirt working machine, all things being equal. But to that last point, they never are - differences in hydraulics, buckets and edges, and other specs, even parts fit and finish - conspire to make every machine (or design, anyway) different.

As you said, the Kioti is a CUT. The constant attempts to make it into "a class of its own" strikes me as a real stretch, and my-brand-vs-yours nonsense. We're not talking about differences like a CUT vs a dedicated TLB (think the B21) of the same HP, for example, or comparing a CUT to a Power Trac or a skid steer. THOSE are class differences. We're talking about spec differences - and for that matter, one material spec difference.

I won't comment in detail on the frame vs integral construction, as the subject has been hammered to death elsewhere. Suffice it to say that the Kioti, again, isn't alone in its construction among CUTs.

As far as classification, whether based on size (and I'd include weight), operational specs, drivetrain, configuration (e.g., front engine, MFWD or 2WD, 3PH, PTOs), intended use, HP, tires, targeted consumer group, or any of the common distinctions, the CK sits quite comfortably and normally in the CUT class. To maintain otherwise is to lose all perspective of tractor classes. Think of them and how they differ: row-crop tractors, orchard tractors, TLBs (dedicated, that is), tricycle, tree-farm and nursery narrows, double-enders, articulated, etc. And yes, UTs, CUTs, and sub-CUTs.

None of this is to say that one can't make an argument for Kioti, or any brand or model, for that matter, being in a class of its own based on some subjective criteria (like quality). I think that's a tall order too, though. I have a hard time seeing how any among the so-called major brands stand head and shoulders above the others, never mind Kioti.

 

[cag]

notractoryet Your right the kioti site is not on line for some reason or another. Keep checking from time to time. You will get all the info you need for kioti tractor's /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif cag

 

[Bob_In_MN]

I'll vote for going lighter and adding weights as well (if mowing is the primary reason for the tractor). I have rings around several of my oak trees from the front right (turf) tire on my 4010. More weight (in my case) would mean more damage.

Opposite of many people--weight is the primary reason I will probably never look seriously at Kioti. I can find other tractors that have similar HP, but are lighter. Weight is a cheap and easy thing to add to just about any tractor.

Now--one could argue that under similar stress loads over years of use, the ladder style frame of my 4010 will give out bofore the more traditional frame found on a CK20, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen (given what I use the trator to do).

As stated by others, I'm not knocking the Kioti in general. I like the looks and think the CK series will sell well. It's just not the tractor I would use for mowing.

Now--if I needed a CUT and planned on using it for FEL and BH work, the KIOTI would be at or near the top of my candidates.

Bob