More tractor buying advice.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 14, 2004

SteveM . . . I tend to agree with you that the limited vs standard Cat 1 hitch probably is overstated, but it does keep coming up on a regular basis. One other issue other than reversing pins (which on many implements is not possible) is that lift height on some may not allow a full rotation on rear blades or rakes.

noTractorYet. . . In addition to the JD models, the 3 Kubotas to look at would be the B7510/B2410/B2610. The B2610 is the budget version of the B2410. The B7510 is a lower hp version of the others. Other tractors to consider would be Kioti CK20 (21hp), NH TC21DA or 24DA (21 & 24hp respecively) and their Farmall DX clones. Mahinda makes a small unit that seems to have a loyal following, but I can't recall the model number. I believe MF makes a small frame in similar hp rating.

I like the FEL of the NH/Farmall the best. Kioti's FEL is very similar. Those 3 would give you the best bucket visibility if that is important to you.

Kioti & Mahindra would be the heaviest of the tractors which would be an advantage if you are doing a lot of FEL or BH work. It would be a disadvantage if you are doing a lot of turf work.

In some areas Kioti & Mahindra are cheaper than JD/NH/Kubota, in other areas that is not really true. If there is a large price advantage, then I would likely lean to that machine if the dealer is an established dealer of good reputation.

KiotiJohn · Jul 14, 2004

( Kioti & Mahindra would be the heaviest of the tractors which would be an advantage if you are doing a lot of FEL or BH work. It would be a disadvantage if you are doing a lot of turf work.)
Bob, I know the popular wisdom is that the heavier CK20 is a problem with turf work, but I don't find that to be true at all. I run mine all around on my lawn going back and forth all the time and don't have a problem with it tearing up the lawn, and that's with the loader and whatever implement on the back, even the backhoe. I think it would take a much heavier tractor than mine to cause a problem.
Also, the CK20 loader lift capacity, and 3pt lift capacity would be higher then the Kubota 7510, and has the sloped hood and curved arms as I believe you stated. I think it would be a good choice for notractoryet, and probably would save him some money while giving more standard features for less money. John

MikeFromVA · Jul 14, 2004

I've called my Kioti dealer 3 times acking for a price on the CK20 and I've not been called back. They happen to be the only dealer that is actually in the same town I am in but when I have to bend over backwards to get them to sell to me, I'm guessing that service is non-existant.

MikeFromVA · Jul 14, 2004

I have an option to buy this JD4310 for $14,750 (original buyer must have changed their mind). No FEL or Hydro, but is it a good price?

KiotiJohn · Jul 14, 2004

( They happen to be the only dealer that is actually in the same town I am in but when I have to bend over backwards to get them to sell to me, I'm guessing that service is non-existant. )
If they won't call you back, I suppose you're right. However, I never try to get a price over the phone because I don't think tractor dealers believe you're serious unless you come look. Just my opinion. John

KiotiJohn · Jul 14, 2004

( I have an option to buy this JD4310 for $14,750 (original buyer must have changed their mind). No FEL or Hydro, but is it a good price? )
It's been too long since I was looking to remember what the price was when I saw one of those, but to give you a comparison, I paid $9985 for my Kioti CK20. With loader, backhoe and boxblade, $16,681.00. John

MikeFromVA · Jul 14, 2004

Just talked to the Kioti dealer finally - the price I got for CK20 HST w/ FEL & 60"MMM was $15,615. The 4310 has a 30HP engine and 72"MMM & power reverser.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 14, 2004

Bob, I know the popular wisdom is that the heavier CK20 is a problem with turf work, but I don't find that to be true at all. I run mine all around on my lawn going back and forth all the time and don't have a problem with it tearing up the lawn, and that's with the loader and whatever implement on the back, even the backhoe. I think it would take a much heavier tractor than mine to cause a problem.


John, It all depends on the specific soil conditions you have on your property.

As a general rule, what I wrote is correct. But it is just a general rule. Just like saying that you probably don't want to mow with AG tires. I have the ruts in my yard to prove it. And I have heavy hard clay. But when it is the least bit wet, driving a heavy tractor on it is a sure way to leave long lasting imprints (even a small tractor can be heavy as measured in pounds per square inch exerted on the ground at the tires and soft conditions can compound that problem). We can each site our specific examples, but I think in many cases we are best off to use somewhat general statements. I've read posts where people use 20hp tractors with 60" finish mowers and they never have a problem, I use a 24hp tractor with a 60" finish mower and it bogs down. So who is correct? We both are, but it is conditional, my lawn is thick and lush, his lawn is in a arrid part of the country and fairly thin. So the general rule I like to use is 3-to-5 PTO-hp per 12" of mower deck, and I think that general rule must then be applied by the ultimate user. Take a look at TILLERS, which is another regular topic. Many people are pulling large tillers behind small tractors and then they say they just set it at 1/2 depth and make 2 passes. To me that is admitting the tiller is too big because they can't use it to its capabilities, and they end up burning twice the fuel (or more) making multiple partial passes.

So I guess what I am saying is I won't argue that your specific CK20 won't leave marks in your specific yard under the specific conditions you use it, but I will stand by what I wrote, which is that heavier tractors may have an advantage over lighter machines when doing some tasks and may be at a disadvantage compared to lighter machines on other tasks. I believe that to be a very accurate general statement that each user can understand and that may well apply to many more people than my specific experiences.

TBrown · Jul 14, 2004

It sounds like the Kioti dealer quoted you list or nearly list. He might do better if you went in and saw him face to face, or he might not. When I was tractor shopping I visited the closest Kioti dealer to me, he had one CK20 HST w/FEL in stock, no mower, and basically told me the price was $13,800.. take it or leave it. I can't really blame him for quoting me list either, he knew he would sell it, if not to me then to someone else. The next closest dealer is an hour away from me, his price was $1000 less, but I'd have to wait. He didn't have any in stock.

I did find that prices vary widely from dealer to dealer, on the same tractor package, and I never tried to pitt one against the other. You might want to shop around a bit. Others have already pointed out comparable offerings from the big 3, and the Mahindra 2015 and Massy 1423 are two others you might want to consider.

Good luck

KiotiJohn · Jul 14, 2004

( Just talked to the Kioti dealer finally - the price I got for CK20 HST w/ FEL & 60"MMM was $15,615. The 4310 has a 30HP engine and 72"MMM & power reverser. )
Okay, that's a little high in my estimate, some bargaining should be possible. Earlier you gave a price for the John Deere without a loader or mower. Find out how much it would be with all you want. Price comparisons are not much good if you're only comparing part of one and all of the other. Sounds like to me that you really want the Deere, and if so, that's the one you should buy. However, I think you could do better with Mahindra, Kioti, Century or others and be just as happy. As I said before, I don't think dealers want to "deal" on the phone, they just think you're doing what you're doing, comparing. If you want to get a serious price, go dicker with the dealer in person. Let us know how much the Deere will be with the same equipment as you were quoted for the Kioti.
Bob Shurka. I didn't post my last post to be arguing, however, you say it's a general statement, but it was VERY specific and authoritatively so. ( Kioti & Mahindra would be the heaviest of the tractors which would be an advantage if you are doing a lot of FEL or BH work. It would be a disadvantage if you are doing a lot of turf work.)
If you want to make a general statement, wouldn't it be better to say, "It may be a disadvantage depending on your soil/lawn conditons" instead?
My lawn is growing in sandy N. Florida dirt and if this tractor were too heavy, it would sure mess up the soil I have but doesn't. Driving my 3300 pound car around on my lawn doesn't damage it either.
John