moving sand

[PaulB]

I am soon having 30 tons of red brick sand delivered to add to the footing of my indoor riding arena. Last time I had footing delivered I had just moved in, and didn't know I needed a tractor for anything, so I had the local farmer spread the stuff for me. Foolishly, I did not watch him do it, so I did not learn how to do it myself. It is delivered on a truck with a conveyor belt, so it ends up being a pile perhaps 50 feet long, 6 feet high, and 12 feet wide in the middle of the ring. How do I spread this into a flat 4 inch deep layer over my 90 by 60 foot arena? I presently have a loader, rear blade, and flexible drag harrow. I figure I can make lots of little piles with the loader, but do I then spread them using my present blade, or would a box blade be better? I can justify the box blade if that is the best tool for the job because I have other uses for it as well. Am I better off using a York rake to spread it? It is fine stuff, like sand.
Thanks,
PaulB

 

[Bird]

PaulB, I don't have one of those York rakes, but it does appear that they may be about the best method. A box blade is better for scraping, digging in, dragging piles of dirt, etc., but I would think that loose sand could be spread just as easily with the blade you have. If it were me, I'd move it around, like you said, with the front loader, and I'd dump it while I was moving so that would spread it to some extent instead of just dumping it in piles, then finish spreading, leveling, etc. with the rear blade.

Bird

 

[Kubota-monkey]

Heres what I would do- First spread all your sand as best you can with the front end loader. You can back drag to get the surface pretty level. IS the sand being dumped inside the arena? If so you wont need to move the sand inside but if it isnt then you should take piles in the bucket and dump then evevly spaced inside the arena. After backdragging, I suggest that you get your hands on a York rake like you mentioned. They work great in spreading and dont dig as much as a grader blade would. Good Luck

 

[Rowski]

After you get the sand spread and fairly level by back dragging and rear blading, try pulling a peice of chain link fence. Just keep going around and around. Keep going different directions. I've been told doing lots of circles works best. Good luck.

 

[gordon]

I'm with Rowski on this one but you already have a flex harrow right if its what I'm thinking of just use it smooth side down after backdragging with the bucket and run it that way.
The backblade angled and using the backside of it so it doesn't want to pull down in the soft stuff but rather just ride and float more towards the top to level will also get the job done.
But if you get a rake make sure to get gauge wheels on back of the rake, well worth the investment and with a big pile of sand sitting out there it's a good way to tell Mama I need a new toy I mean tool to properly spread out the sand.
Gordon

 

[Von]

Paul,
Don't forget that the truck that delivers the sand can make small piles all over the place instead of one big one. It may be alittle more work for the truck driver, but it will save you alot of loader work!

Von

 

[JimBinMI]

PaulB,

Last summer, I moved tons of fill sand for the base of my pole barn. I hadn't yet received my backblade so I went and rented a york rake without wheels (didn't have them).
The york rake worked great since it lets go of some of the sand as you pull, doesn't slow you down like the rear blade can if you get too big of a bite. The rake really did a good job. When I had more sand delivered, I had received my back blade, it worked best as mentioned earlier by using the back side and pulling so that it lets go of some of the sand and floats over the sand.

My implement want list is: #1 - 4' rotary cutter, #2 - york/landscape rake.

If you lived closer, I'd come over and help you, not because you need the help but just because it's fun! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Good Luck, JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[MChalkley]

PaulB - If the stuff doesn't pack too easily (i.e. if it doesn't have any clay in it), I'd start at one end of the pile, backdrag a little less than half of it or so to the near side of the arena, then push the rest of it to the far side of the arena by pushing into what's left of the pile. (To use this method if the 50 foot long pile is centered longways in the 90 foot long arena, you'll need to elongate the pile first to make it 90 feet long. The easiest way to do this is probably to push along the sides of it parallel to the pile.) The disadvantage of this approach is that if the material packs, you're driving on top of half of it to spread the other half, making your later fine grading step much more difficult. In that case, you'll need to backdrag all of it, trying to stay off it as much as possible.

After you get it more or less evenly distributed, any of the methods mentioned will work. If you don't have any implements with a trailing gauge wheel, I'd try backdragging with the bucket in float for a while to see if that doesn't spread it fairly evenly, then do the upside-down drag harrow trick to finish it off. Or, if the drag harrow will pull any material at all right side up, try that right after backdragging or instead of it.

Mark

 

[gerard]

I did the same thing your doing with 25 ton mason sand, also for an indoor arena, only the truck had to dump outside and i took it in the the loader. Dumped in piles at one end in a row all across the back, then used a box blade preset with a 1inch gap on bottom and dragged until the sand emptied. Worked pretty well. You could do the same thing with a back blade and then do the finish work with the york rake. Pretty easy work compared to many projects!

 

[Djwalker]

Paul,

Did you say 30 tons? If so, I think you'll be disappointed at the cover you get. 30 tons is about 24 cu yds (around here it is about 1.25 tons/yard for sand). 24 yds will only cover a 90 x 60 arena about 1.5" deep. When I did our arena last year I got 150 tons for a 150 x 100 arena and ended up with about 3". Spreading and leveling took about 3-4 hours. I had the truck dump the loads over as much of the arena as possible and ended up with 50' x 6' x 1' high strips. I used my box blade to spread it as level as possible. Then I back dragged with the bucket. THat leveled it pretty well. A half dozen passes with the chain harrow finished it off. I have since gotten a rake and I think that would work bette than the box blade.

Dave

 

[Thomas]

PaulB,
A rake I'm sure would do the job,and maybe a rake with a grader blade plus the boots on the end would be a tad better.






Thomas..NH

 

[PaulB]

So the overall concensus is a york rake. Damn. I was hoping to able to say, "Yes dear I know it is expensive, but all the guys on tracorbynet say I HAVE to have a box blade so I can do your riding arena. Not that I really want one, but for you I would get one anyway". Rakes just don't have the same Tim Allen appeal as a scarified equipped 400 pound piece of cold steel.
DJWalker - yes I know the single load won't stretch that far, but I have a 3 inch base now so I only need to get to a total of 4 inches or so, so sounds like the 30 tons should do it. Thanks for doing the calculations.
Mark - doesn't pack at all - real silty stuff. Should be able to drive over it no problem.
Thanks again to all.
PaulB

 

[MChalkley]

PaulB - Well... I don't know what my endorsement is worth to your wife, but it would be handy to have the box scraper to pull the sand away from the pile with.

The rake would be nice for the fine grading, but I don't think it would be all that great for moving the stuff to begin with. I've moved masonry sand before and the stuff is so fine, a rake just pulls through it without moving much of it.

Mark

 

[jyoutz]

All of the ideas sound like they would work. I just want to say that if you use a rear grader blade, I've had good luck spreading fine gravel by backblading so that it floats. Also I've done this with skidshoes set 2" below the blade. That kind of meters out the material as you go, and also prevents any digging in. Skidshoes only cost me $100 for my Landpride blade.

 

[Billc]

PaulB, we helped a friend of ours out about 6 weeks ago doing the same thing you are about to do. He has a covered arena we team rope in. He was just adding to the base. We had 4 tractors in the arena doing the spreading, but after several near misses we cut back to two tractors. The other two fellas sat on the rail and did a fine job of telling us what we were doing wrong and demonstrating the best way to drink a beer....actually several beers.

Our method was basic. Used the front loader to distribute to smaller piles and back bladed with the loader. This spread the sand out. Next, and you will like this, we used box blades-----again, We Used Box Blades----again, WE USED BOX BLADES!!! to level the sand out.

We set the box blade with a slight cut angel and about 1" above the ground. Lowered the box blade on a pile and started dragging.

I've learned the best way to use a box blade, and any other piece of equipment for that matter, is slowly. It does a great job, and you won't tear up your tractor or implements.

May I be one of the first to say congratulations on getting your new box blade, Paul?!

 

[TomG]

Box scrapers are useful in dragging gravel out of piles and spreading it. However, I found that I have to ride the 3ph level quite a bit to get decent spreading, especially if the ground has bumps and dips. Position control is required, because the gravel doesn't spread very well if the scraper is left floating. I believe that MarkC has gauge wheels, and they sound very useful for spreading material.

I found that I get better smoothing with the scraper than with the loader bucket by fully extending the top link so the scrapper rides on the back of its rear cutter. A rake probably would work even better for smoothing, but I don't have one.

I think it was Cowboy who said that loader buckets can be used for compacting material. With a flat bucket, put down-pressure on the bucket to the point where there is little steering, and then back-drag. I will use that idea when I need to compact as well as smooth it.

Somebody mentioned that side-plates are available for blades, and also aren't very expensive. With side-plates, a blade will carry more material since it can't come off the blade ends. Side-plates should make a blade work more like a box scraper, and they could be useful when using a blade to spread material. The main advantage of a box scraper over a blade with side plates is that the scraper cuts better due to its greater weight. However, cutting isn't a requirement when spreading gravel. A blade with side-plates should work well.

 

[MChalkley]

TomG - You're right; if I were doing it, after distribuiting it the way I mentioned, I'd put on the rake with gauge wheels. It's also got the drop down blade with end plates, which I think would be the idea thing to use to fine grade it, but since Paul didn't have that I didn't mention it at first. Also, I don't think it's as useful as a box scraper, unless fine grading is primarily what you do.

Mark

 

[roysallis]

Do you know of a source for side plates for a grader blade?

 

[MChalkley]

Landpride sells side plates for all their blades. If you don't have a Landpride unit, they might still fit. If you could see them at a local dealer, it would help.

Mark

 

[PaulB]

Mark - I have a Woods blade - will look into availability of side plates even though what I really WANT is a box blade. Just got the estimate on a new roof for the house, so right now spending a hundred on side plates is much more likely to pass the House Ways and Means Committee (wife) than $500 on a box blade