Multi use machine and spool gun?

[yarg]

Have you considered the Thermal Arc 181i Thermal Arc , I bought one a while back and so far it's a great working machine, as long as you realize it's not a production unit and expect to burn 5/32 7018's all day. It will burn them no problem with lots of heat but not for 8 hours a day. The leads (small ga.) are the visable limiting factor and I would assume the insides are similar.

Wirefeed works great, it is a light drive system but better than some of the other Chinese imports, it's aluminum as opposed to plastic. Bit of a pia to change from 8" to 4" rolls but nothing you can't live with, a bit awkward to feed the wire into the gun liner as the area is cramped but it's livable for the times you have to deal with it. Gun is a .....Tweco 180 I think (can't rememeber right now) and doesn't use odd consumables.

Power cord is nice and long so you may not need an extension.

I've used mine quite a bit on s/s tig, mig and stick and I have no complaints. I tried the gasless wire for for the heck of it as I never had much faith in it but I must say, I was quite surprised at the quality of the weld.

It's a DC only machine so aluminum tig is out but for s/s or steel the lift arc is great. The only thing I don't like is the torch has a manual gas valve so you have to rememeber to turn it on an off, forget to do one or the other and it'll either be expensive (wasting gas) or messy ( forgetting to turn it on). The torch is very comfortable, nice swivel on the inlet end so there's no drag from the lead and the trigger is very ergomatically(sp) placed. You can set up the trigger to latch (electrically) or have to hold it down as well as taper off the heat when you end your weld for crater filling

I'm considering getting the aluminum gun for it but can't justify it so far as it's around $300 here. I did use one for a trial when the salesman had one in the shop for a demo and even tho it was a light gun and wouldn't survive with Bubba the ape using it, for yourself, I wouldn't hesitate as you're going to look after your own gear better. As long as you realize it's not a Spoolmatic gun and start abusing it, I don't think you'd have a problem.

And not I don't work for TA LOL......Mike

Thanks Mike,
Great information. I have been leaning towards the TA unit. Lots of great reads on it.
Do you think It will push Alum wire through the whip gun? Worth a try? '

What of my cutting plans? Are they sound?
Gray

 

[CNC Dan]

Thanks Dan,

One after thought: Tweco makes nylon liners for mig guns. Could I skip the spool gun as this unit would only be used for Alum on mig and SS on tig and go with the liner idea?

Sound like a plan?
Gray

Sounds like a plan for failure.
Aluminum is so soft it tends to bend between the drive rolls and the start of the liner/gun.

If it worked, they wouldn't have invented spool guns.

 

[mrmikey]

Do you think It will push Alum wire through the whip gun? Worth a try? '

Ehhhh, in a real pinch I'd try it but I agree with Dan, I think it'd be more aggravation than it's worth. They do make machines that will take the 12" spools but they're push/pull, they have a drive motor in the gun end as well as the feed drive on the machine.
If you do decide to go that route and give it a try, two things. 1: let me know how it works LOL and 2: use 5356 wire, it's a bit stiffer than the 4043.

The cold cut saws are tha cats *****, if you look after the blades they'll last for ever. The killer seems to be vibration, one slight movement when you're cutting and you'll lose a few carbides and it's downhill from there.

They make specialty carbide blades for s/s but the ones I've tried didn't last for beans, I ended up using the ole abrasive saw.

For aluminum you can use the cold cut or a wood saw, just be sure to use some sort of lubricant on the blade to preven the gulletts from filling up. It makes it a bit of a pain when welding as you have to clean the lubricant off but it's necessary.

Plasma is cheaper than acetylene (other than the initial cost) providing you don't go thru a lot of consumables so find out the cost of them, they can add up. It's something that'll either last you awhile or 2 seconds, it's a crap shoot. Plunge cuts are a killer on tips and nozzles.

I prefer acetylene. I find it works better on rusty crap, tips are cleanable, more portable and you've got heating abilities. On the downside, gas is expensive, you can run out in the middle of a job, you need either your own bottles or a contract.

In the end, it's your decision, weigh the options.....Mike

 

[yarg]

Ehhhh, in a real pinch I'd try it but I agree with Dan, I think it'd be more aggravation than it's worth. They do make machines that will take the 12" spools but they're push/pull, they have a drive motor in the gun end as well as the feed drive on the machine.
If you do decide to go that route and give it a try, two things. 1: let me know how it works LOL and 2: use 5356 wire, it's a bit stiffer than the 4043.

The cold cut saws are tha cats *****, if you look after the blades they'll last for ever. The killer seems to be vibration, one slight movement when you're cutting and you'll lose a few carbides and it's downhill from there.

They make specialty carbide blades for s/s but the ones I've tried didn't last for beans, I ended up using the ole abrasive saw.

For aluminum you can use the cold cut or a wood saw, just be sure to use some sort of lubricant on the blade to preven the gulletts from filling up. It makes it a bit of a pain when welding as you have to clean the lubricant off but it's necessary.

Plasma is cheaper than acetylene (other than the initial cost) providing you don't go thru a lot of consumables so find out the cost of them, they can add up. It's something that'll either last you awhile or 2 seconds, it's a crap shoot. Plunge cuts are a killer on tips and nozzles.

I prefer acetylene. I find it works better on rusty crap, tips are cleanable, more portable and you've got heating abilities. On the downside, gas is expensive, you can run out in the middle of a job, you need either your own bottles or a contract.

In the end, it's your decision, weigh the options.....Mike

Great info Mike,
Thanks,
When I add this to Dan's input, my picture is much more clear
A friend just told me I could have his older Miler Plasma cutter? He is in his seventies and has not used it in five years. I am going to check it out and see if it has a pilot arc feature? It could be a great option but will not know till I find out what this unit really is. Saving a grand would be wonderful!

Gray

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

It should have a pilot arc feature.

With the TA unit you will have to get a teflon liner or some slick liner to feed it through the gun. You'll have to use 50xx series wire, the U groove drive rolls, and keep the gun cable as straight as possible at all times, and it will feed.

 

[CliffordK]

You can occasionally find used Cobramatic suitcases for around $400 to $800 or so on Craigslist for welding Aluminum. All you need to do is add your choice of power supplies.

I was going to try to convert a 3 phase power supply using ideas on the internet, but ended up picking up a used Powcon power supply. It doesn't have AC/pulse (just missed the pulser on Craigslist), but hopefully will be good for MIG and more portable than the 3 phase beasts.

 

[yarg]

Well, after all this input, I have come to these as my options:

First I do have a budget---the best value to do my expected work? I will be fabrictating portable well riggs in the fall for next year.

Option One:
Stay with my Lincoln 251 Mig for all steel on Argon and CO 2---good to 1/2 "
Buy a multi process machine like Thermal Arc 181 and use straight Argon and .25 SS wire, hot add a spool gun on the same machine. Almost instant change over and one gas. Stick use to 145amps at 30% . $1100. Good to 1/4" alum and SS
Buy a stand alone plasma such as the Power Plasma 50 with pilot and a 60 amp torch. $800 --Good to 1/2"
Buy the cold cut Makita chop saw for most quality straight cuts $450
All in without tank---$2350

Option two is:
Keep my Lincoln Mig for steel.
Buy the new offering from Northern Tool of a multi purpose welder for Alum and SS with argon only. Stick use to 180 amps at 30% . This welder is rated higher in amps and duty cycle than the Thermal Arc but is it really? Durability? $700
This unit is rated at higher amps and duty cycle but it is an import and little time on the market for reviews.
Buy the Makita cold cut saw. $450
Buy the Power Plasma 50 or 60 for most cutting. $800
All in $1950 without tank.

Input??????
Thanks again, I have been learning much on this site from all of you
Gray

 

[mrmikey]

......and use straight Argon and .25 SS wire

S/S wire requires a tri-mix, argon/oxygen/co2.
Other thasn the gas, I'd with option #1....Mike

 

[yarg]

Hi mike,
In another thread here onnwelding, a number of experienced welders spoke of using just argon withna hot wire and getting good results? Some even use 72/25 and get some rusting because or the oxygen.
Other than that, they are sound welds?
Just thought that with obey ocational ss, it would be a good compromise.
Gray

Ps? Igbt, is this the only way to go or is the older inverter tech OK?
This is the PowerPlasma vs the Power Cut and $300