Multiple drive-shaft transmission

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   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission
  • Thread Starter
#41  
Is there a dealer near you that sells one of these big blowers for a skidsteer? If so you could drop by and eyeball how large the pump is, the hydraulic lines, and generally how they have it setup. You could also find out the minimum gpm required from the skidsteer pump, and get a idea how much of a hydraulic pump it would require. This one is 6ft wide. They sell them for about $5000 on ebay.

s-l1600.jpg

These are the ones that gave me the idea of a hydraulic auger motor but since I need 2000+ ft-lbs on there that would require a very expensive motor AND maybe a dedicated pump. I could use a lesser motor and gear it but if I'm going that route then I might as well just gear from the fan motor and use only that one.

HOWEVER, if I do go hydraulics I have an idea to grossly reduce the gearbox weight. Conventional blowers have like 1-1/2" shaft bevel gear with no reduction only to supply the reducing auger chain drive. That shaft is also 1-1/2" on mine and the box weighs quite a bit. The through shaft driving the fan becomes superfluous, I can just put a much smaller bevel gearbox IN-FRONT of the fan and accomplish that reduction at 1/4 the weight. I'd just have to keep it from falling onto the auger it drives :)
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission #42  
This would be a tad costly but your going to have money wrapped up into this setup anyway.

Why not just buy the skidsteer snowblower w/ all the hydraulics?? Then you only have to get to a certian gpm/psi to drive it. That would solve half the problem of trying to figure out the hydraulics of you go that root.

If you really wanted to get fancy you could rig up a skidder mount for your truck too and use forks or a bucket on your truck in the summer.
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission #43  
I've seen auto differentials used for the auger gear box in front of the fan on homemade blowers. Very strong and they have gear reduction.
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission
  • Thread Starter
#44  
I've seen auto differentials used for the auger gear box in front of the fan on homemade blowers. Very strong and they have gear reduction.

aka lincoln lockers are extremely heavy, to just drive the chain reduction with a one inch shaft gearbox in front of the fan means a 50-60 lbs bevelbox
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission #45  
If he's looking at doing hydraulics anyways, I would just add a small hydraulic motor to chain drive the auger and then he can control that independently or speed it up and down as needed.

Aaron Z
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission #46  
aka lincoln lockers are extremely heavy, to just drive the chain reduction with a one inch shaft gearbox in front of the fan means a 50-60 lbs bevelbox

Well, you wanted 2000 lb ft torque on the auger. Wouldn't the auger have to be direct driven by the gearbox in front of the fan? I don't think those cast iron gearboxes will handle that kind of power, but I'm not an expert.
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission
  • Thread Starter
#47  
Well, you wanted 2000 lb ft torque on the auger. Wouldn't the auger have to be direct driven by the gearbox in front of the fan? I don't think those cast iron gearboxes will handle that kind of power, but I'm not an expert.

[I'm leaving this thread here for now because I don't know of an elegant way to move it all to Snow-Removal]

No, the reason for the gearbox behind or in front of the fan is to provide a turning shaft to drive the chain sprocket of the chain reduction for the auger. These gearboxes provide reduction for the fan ONLY on the more powerful sets, for reasons I don't know. On lesser hp rigs like my current one the 'gear' box is just a through-shaft to the fan with the mentioned side-shaft. I don't intend to use gearbox reduction as-such for the fan itself at all, unless I learn something new.

The current rig offers some 180 ft-lbs of flywheel torque, that gets first multiplied by 2.5 at the belt reduction to the fan gearbox, then the otherwise unreduced side-shaft drives the chain sprocket where a FURTHER reduction of around 3 takes place. I don't know the math to determine how much of the 450 ft-lbs arriving to the fan gearbox finds its way to the chain drive. I think all it of when the fan is unloaded, over 1200 ft-lbs, which then drops as the fan encounters load, falling to nothing when that load starts to stall the engine. Now, since the side-shaft driving the small chain-sprocket is only 1-1/4" it's obvious that the John Deer engineers never expected all the torque to reach the chain-drive. Ant that's OK because in the original concept it would have been impossible to point the auger at the frozen ground and load it to death. In my setup it IS possible, AND it was intended to be possible, and it IS used.

Now if I were to place the gearbox to serve the sauger system in front of the fan, its sole purpose being to supply a 3:1 reduction chain-drive for the auger, then the torque leaving that gearbox would not need to be more 1/3 of what reaches the auger, let's say 750 ft-lbs to get 2100 at the auger. This would make it a smaller (and lighter) box then the current one using 1-1/2" for the through shaft and 1-1/4" for the side-shaft.

I fooled myself into thinking that I could get away with the downsizing, and I could too if I kept the current engine, but if I seriously raise the power then the potential torque reaching the auger will rise in direct proportion. That's just wonderful but I have to keep in mind that even the proportionally less torque arriving there will then be far greater than the current 'total'.

That's about as best as I can sum it up. I saw some skid-steer augers driven by what looks like otherwise unreduced hydraulic motors. But as my nose has been rubbed into it by i forget which expert here, getting a 2000+ ft-lbs dedicatred motor would just open another can of worms so I think I best stick to the much lighter-weight chain drive and reduction even though with more power that too will have to be beefed up AND wil require a gearbox at least equal to what I have. What remains as a valid flash-in the pan from my idea is to put that gearbox in front of the fan which doesn't need it, THIS would allow a smaller box than one also servicing the fan even with just a through-shaft. I'm now putting about double the design torque on the original gearbox, it's holding up good, but I'd be pushing it with as little as maybe another 50 hp on tap.
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission #48  
There are two gearbox designs for a snowblower
One has a gearbox behind the fan with a straight through shaft to drive the fan, then a side shaft to drive the auger via a chain. This is usually found on larger/heavier blowers.
The other has a gearbox (often a worm gear) in front of the fan that directly drives the auger. This is usually found on smaller/lighter blowers (from walk behind 2 stage blowers, up to SCUT/CUT class snowblowers).

Some blowers will have both the second type of gearbox (worm gear in front of the fan) and a reduction gearbox behind the fan (to slow down a 1000-2000 RPM PTO shaft to near 540RPM). This is often found on front mount CUT/SCUT machines (such as Kuboita B or BX series tractors, Deere, Kioti, MF, LS, etc, etc) and most of them are made by RAD in Canada. This allows them to use the same basic snowblower for front mount as for 3 point mount and reduce the number of parts that need to be stocked (just different PTO shafts, an extra gearbox and mounting brackets).

If you would like, this thread can be moved into the snowblower section, or it can be left here.

Aaron Z
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission
  • Thread Starter
#49  
There are two gearbox designs for a snowblower
One has a gearbox behind the fan with a straight through shaft to drive the fan, then a side shaft to drive the auger via a chain. This is usually found on larger/heavier blowers.
The other has a gearbox (often a worm gear) in front of the fan that directly drives the auger. This is usually found on smaller/lighter blowers (from walk behind 2 stage blowers, up to SCUT/CUT class snowblowers).

Some blowers will have both the second type of gearbox (worm gear in front of the fan) and a reduction gearbox behind the fan (to slow down a 1000-2000 RPM PTO shaft to near 540RPM). This is often found on front mount CUT/SCUT machines (such as Kuboita B or BX series tractors, Deere, Kioti, MF, LS, etc, etc) and most of them are made by RAD in Canada. This allows them to use the same basic snowblower for front mount as for 3 point mount and reduce the number of parts that need to be stocked (just different PTO shafts, an extra gearbox and mounting brackets).

If you would like, this thread can be moved into the snowblower section, or it can be left here.

Aaron Z

I learned something here, that the reason for the reduction to 540 on some blowers is not a fan limit of any sort but to be able to use the same blowers whose fans were designed to work well at 540rpm. I always presumed that it had to do with more power missing the fact that the large blowers are not only more powerful but also all front mounted! I owe you a beer for this one :)
 
   / Multiple drive-shaft transmission #50  
How many different threads are going on for this snowblower??? I count three so far. Its getting hard to keep them straight.
 
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