Municipal fed cistern system?

[boggen]

seems like hefty cost. then using a pump to get pressure, maintenance nightmare (actual repairs, then actual yearly cost of repairs / up keep) vs just relying on pressure already created by local water company.

if you were in a "dry hot climate" say texas for example. ya ok, and dealing with rain water and like. but colorado?

if you had a well. ya a well tank, that is just something wells need normally.

if you wanted it for emergency situation. ok i will bite.

i think you will come to find out (long term) crud will build up in the bottom of the tank. it will be acting as a "settling chamber filter" water will have a very long "dwell time" allowing stuff to fall out of the water and down into the bottom. you will accumulate crud in the bottom of the tank. and there is good chance you will accumulate "surface crud" on the surface of the water. good example would be aquariums as the water evaporates you end up getting a "scum line" around the glass. or a kitchen sink do a bunch of dishes you same water. then do not let it drain for a couple hours. then drain, you should for sure see a scum layer were the water level was. this scum layer will end up within the tank.

along with "boil orders" that get sent out when something happens to piping and needs fix for local water company.

you say you are going to bury it, but a float valve? ya ok i will bite, if it was only to fill tank. so you do not have to be around non stop making sure you do not overfill it. the couple float valves i can think of. say for example a septic tank pump (float switch on a cord), might work. but yo still need to bring a pipe large enough for float valve up above ground, and insert a "well screen" or like structure. so the tank can breath. and allow air in/out as the tank fills up / empties. this pipe will most likely need to stick straight up out of ground from were tank is buried.

float valves do fail. "toilet floats" in the tanks are good enough example of that. from pond to aquarium to tanks. float valves will fail. and either fail open and over flow, or stay shut, or more than likely leak constantly.

a set it up and leave it and forget it "shakes head no" it does not happen.

yes, attempting to talk ya to put it above ground. much better so you can access it, clean it, drain it, repair it. if it was rain water, and just using to flush toilet, and/or water garden / grass, ya ok. no biggie. but for drinking water / sink water / shower water. it be a different story, due to needing to keep things cleaned.

===========
if you are just wanting more "GPM" for say multiple head shower, or wanting more GPM for a sink running, toilet running, someone taking a shower all at the same time. i would think just getting a couple extra well tanks. would be far much more cheaper, and much easier to install, and easier on the pocket book long term. the well tanks would help deal with sudden usage.

 

[1stDeuce]

Well maybe not two weeks but a couple of months unless I water the landscape. The real reason I chose 5000 gals is because if you buy water around here they charge you for 4000 gallons whether or not you take it all. Another reason was for fire since you can't fight much of a fire with a well pump but a fire truck tapping into 5000 gallons might get something useful accomplished.

Ah, having a reservoir for firefighting is another good reason. Our place will be in prime wildfire territory. There is a hydrant at the road, but its also pump fed, and there's no backup gen, so if the fire takes out the power, it also takes out the water.

And of I just wanted to hook up to the water and "be done with it" i wouldn't have posted in the first place. This is the wild west, and I prefer to be at least minimally prepared for whatever might happen.

 

[dadster4]

Well maybe not two weeks but a couple of months unless I water the landscape. The real reason I chose 5000 gals is because if you buy water around here they charge you for 4000 gallons whether or not you take it all. Another reason was for fire since you can't fight much of a fire with a well pump but a fire truck tapping into 5000 gallons might get something useful accomplished.

That is enough water to supply about 5 minutes of fire hose time...better be a small fire!

 

[1stDeuce]

So basically, many of y'all's advice is "don't do it, just be a sheeple and use the municipal water supply because it's easier." It appears almost none of you are actually on a cistern, or know that S/W Colorado is pretty hot and dry, comparable to a lot of central Texas, Arizona, Utah, etc.

I appreciate your concerns with my plan, but I'm just not comfortable relying on a system that goes down, and is likely to do so at the worst times possible. This isn't a big city water system, it's a very rural system, that gets about 10th priority when something goes wrong.

I suppose I may get a little bit of silt or sediment accumulation in the bottom over the long term, but FAR less than a cistern that's refilled manually I would think. Just so those of you unfamiliar with cisterns know, they are VERY common in this area, since well water is no good, and municipal water is rarely available outside a town. (Our sub is lucky to have it!) There are very reliable float valves, and pumps that are made for cistern systems, so there will be no need to "rig" anything.

Burying the cistern keeps it out of the sun, away from critters, and protected from damage. It's standard practice for a drinking water cistern.


Dickfoster, how have you identified your water as available to the FD? I suppose just telling them might be enough if it's rural... I know 1000 or even 5000 gallons isn't a lot when fighting building fires, but when suppressing wildfires, it can go a long way. Many of those rigs only carry 2-300 gallons. A really big wildfire truck might have 500 gallons, but that would be huge.

Is anyone actually on a cistern that can speak to how often you have to clean it out? I haven't heard much about cleaning them, so I was figuring it was very infrequently needed...
Thanks for the input!!

 

[dickfoster]

Ah, having a reservoir for firefighting is another good reason. Our place will be in prime wildfire territory. There is a hydrant at the road, but its also pump fed, and there's no backup gen, so if the fire takes out the power, it also takes out the water.

And of I just wanted to hook up to the water and "be done with it" i wouldn't have posted in the first place. This is the wold west, and I prefer to be at least minimally prepared for whatever might happen.

Well power usually goes out with a wild fire ergo part of my reason for putting in the tanks. Another thought some are suggesting you pressure the tank with local water pressure however that poses a couple of problems. Most plastic tanks cannot be operated under pressure so you're looking at a small pump to provide household water pressure. Secondly if the muni water goes out there goes your pressure along with it so again you're back where you started. I have a small 1/2 HP well pump in my tank and it's quite enough to supply the house with 60 PSI since there is no lift involved. Well pumps are also very reliable and made to last. I fill the tank with a level controlled well pump that's down in the well then use a pressure switch to control the pump in the tank. You'd be one pump less if you used the muni system to keep the tank topped up but that should be controlled via a float control of some sort.

 

[dickfoster]

So basically, many of y'all's advice is "don't do it, just be a sheeple and use the municipal water supply because it's easier." It appears almost none of you are actually on a cistern, or know that S/W Colorado is pretty hot and dry, comparable to a lot of central Texas, Arizona, Utah, etc.

I appreciate your concerns with my plan, but I'm just not comfortable relying on a system that goes down, and can is likely to do so at the worst times possible. This isn't a big city water system, it's a very rural system, that gets about 10th priority when something goes wrong.

I suppose I may get a little bit of silt or sediment accumulation in the bottom over the long term, but FAR less than a cistern that's refilled manually I would think. Just so those of you unfamiliar with cisterns know, they are VERY common in this area, since well water is no good, and municipal water is rarely available outside a town. (Our sub is lucky to have it!) There are very reliable float valves, and pumps that are made for cistern systems, so there will be no need to "rig" anything.

Burying the cistern keeps it out of the sun, away from critters, and protected from damage. It's standard practice for a drinking water cistern.


Dickfoster, how have you identified your water as available to the FD? I suppose just telling them might be enough if it's rural... I know 1000 or even 5000 gallons isn't a lot when fighting building fires, but when suppressing wildfires, it can go a long way. Many of those rigs only carry 2-300 gallons. A really big wildfire truck might have 500 gallons, but that would be huge.

Is anyone actually on a cistern that can speak to how often you have to clean it out? I haven't heard much about cleaning them, so I was figuring it was very infrequently needed...
Thanks for the input!!

I have a sign alongside the road where the tanks are and I made sure there was easy access from the road and installed a fire hose type connection for them to use.

There are signs up and down the road I live on that shows where all the fire hose connections are located.

Warning, those brass fire hose type valves are not cheap but quite cheap enough compared to the house burning down for lack of it. Check with your local FD as to what's acceptable as most fire trucks carry a few adapters so check with them. I remember mine was on the order of 400 bucks or so all told with the covers and such.

 

[1stDeuce]

Thanks for the info Dickfoster. I was aware that I'd need a float, as a cistern is not a pressure tank, only a holding tank. I'll have a 1/2hp cistern pump just like you, supplying a pressure tank in the garage, and that will provide pressure to both the garage apartment and the house. (The garage/apt will be built this year, house next year...)

I'm figuring I'll put a high volume outlet of some sort just outside the garage. I have a 200 gallon brush fire trailer that I could then refill fairly quickly from the 20gpm 1/2hp pump. Pressure in the house might suffer while I'm filling, but if I need a fast fill, I won't care at all about pressure in the house. I'll probably also have a suction stand that the FD can use, and since I'm planning to be part of the local volunteer fire dept, it should be easy to relay it's location.

So you're putting well water in your cisterns... Do you do any treatment, like chlorination, or just add to one cistern and pump from the other? Any noticeable issue with "stale" water?

 

[scdeerslayer]

So if you use a cistern like the OP describes, what happens when you have a boil water advisory? Drain the entire cistern, flush the lines, and fill it back up after the advisory is over? That would be my biggest concern. I don't plan on ever being on municipal water though.

 

[Streetcar]

With muncipal supply the debris build up should be minimal.
It seems to be easier and cheaper to primarily run municipal and use cistern as backup.
Install bypass that you can renew cistern water a couple of days a month.
I have never had boil water advisory . They are usually from a major break in a isolated part of the system

 

[1stDeuce]

Yeah, if we got a boil water advisory and I didn't think I was able to shut off water in time, we would probably over-chlorinate the cistern. But my thought was that we use so little water that we'd just shut it off when things went south, and then purge the feed line once they OK'd the water, before opening the cistern fill valve.

While the cistern really is "backup" for the municipal system, I am still pretty sure I'd prefer the cistern water be part of the everyday system, rather than relying on municipal water all the time for pressure, and hoping my "backup" system works when I need it, and that the water is OK...