MURRAY vs. CRAFTSMAN

Travis_R · Jun 23, 2004

Hey!

I am going to buy a mower or now known as a "lawn tractor" in a few months and was wondering which one I should get. Murray or Craftsman. I am leaning towards the Murray. But, I want ya'll's opinion. I want at least a 17.5 horse power single cylinder with at least a 42" cut. I want to try to keep the price a little under $1000.00. I may would buy a used one, depending on the condition and price. Murray and Craftsman both have cutting deck problems, from what I have seen, like the spindle bearings going out, but maybe that is from lack of maintenance. I have seen more Craftsmans cut unlevel than Murrays'. Why? Maybe caused from lack of maintenance also. I have also sen more broken down Craftsmans than Murrays too.
The reason I haven't ruled out Craftsman is because of Sears' maintenance agreement. They are usually good about repairing under warranty.
I don't know which transmission I want. Both mowers have excellent manual speed transmissions. But, the hydrostatic drive is more convenient. What is the maintenance on a hydrostatic transmission? Is it more reliable than a manual trans.? What causes the hydro transmission to "whine" with the mower coming to a stop and the wheels don't spin when going up a hill (Murray) while the foot pedal is pressed down? Is the drive belt wore out? Are there any adjustments? It didn't do it when it was new.
I have used BOTH brands quite a bit. I like BOTH machines as far as comfort. But the Murray may be alittle more comfortable to me.
I just wanted to see what you all think and feel free to voice your opinions. Tell me the good, bad, pros, and cons of these two brands. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks,
Travis

slammer · Jun 23, 2004

I could not in good faith reccomend either one. Sorry. Murray is it's own brand but in my opinion is perhaps the biggest piece of junk on the planet. Craftsman (actually AYP) is better but your comment about Sears warranty service is laughable. Heres a link..http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/garden.html

If your stuck in the $800 to $1200 range I would suggest a good used Deere, Simplicity, or Cub.

In general I would avoid anything made by MTD, AYP, or Murray. Murray also makes NOMA, AMF, DYNAMARK, and SCOTTS.

Oh and before somebody yells i'm crazy Cub Cadet is OWNED by MTD but not MADE by MTD. Though I sometimes wonder about the 1000 series it looks pretty cheaply made to me. Kinda like the Deere 100 series.

I wish I knew of a "good deal" in a high quality mower but in these days of mass markets and bargain stores they are a thing of the past. A quality hydrostatic transmission alone can cost $600 to $800 dollars so how much tractor are you getting? Your basically buying a tranny with as little mower as possible wrapped around it. Sad but true.

If I have misconstrued your price range and your willing to go $2500 to $3000 there are alot more options out there.

Slam

Zoomie · Jun 23, 2004

While I've only onwed one of each, my experiences have been mostly postive with both. Both get regular routine maintenance (oil changes, lube, spark plugs, blades sharpened or replaced)

My Murray is now 10 years old, its a 14.5hp B&S I/C engine with a 42" deck, and pedal controlled hydrostatic drive. In 10 years, I've had to: replace the engine's pan gasket (the bolts vibrated loose after 6 years.. had no lock washers... they do now) but that was a B&S assembly problem, not a Murray problem; replaced the engine flywheel's plastic ring gear after 6-7 years (replacemtn part was aluminum ~ again a B&S problem); replaced the front hanger brackets for the deck after 8 years (actually made my own from "L" stock, and welded them to the front crossmember ~ originals were threaded and bolted on); replaced the drive and deck belts after 8 years (when I finally ran out of adjustment on the deck belt engagement linkage); replaced the steering gear after 9 years (this is the mower I use to trim under my fence so it gets alot of twisting on the steering wheel to dodge the posts).

My Craftsman is only 4 years old, and has a 22hp Kohler V-twin engine with a 50" cutting deck, and hand controlled hydrostatic drive. So far, I haven't had a moments trouble with this one.

Gatorboy · Jun 23, 2004

From the subject, I thought you wanted to know who would lose in the battle of the worst mowers. Even though Craftsman is bad, I'd say Murray would be the worst of the two.

slammer · Jun 23, 2004

While I've only onwed one of each, my experiences have been mostly postive with both.

Glad you have had such good luck. Of course you don't have a new Murray. I doubt that someone who buys one today will be bragging about in 2014. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Slam

slowrev · Jun 23, 2004

Just out of curosity I checked out a couple of new Craftsmans and some Murrays yesterday evening. The current Craftsmans do look better, (mechanically) than the Murrays. Murrays do not seem to be as good as they were, wheras Craftsmans seem to have held about the same in their mechanics, which is to say ok, but not fantastic by any means.
My vote is for the Craftsmans or a similiar MTD for about the same money, unless you want to fix up a quality used mower. I fix up old mwers for friends and family but that route is not for everybody.

slammer · Jun 23, 2004

If you were to tie me down and beat me with a stick till I recomended a "mass market" mower I would say Poulan Pro. They are an AYP product, virtually identical to the Craftsman but lower in cost. There I said it! Now don't tell anybody! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Specifically the model in the link below. It has the cast iron front end and Kohler engine.

http://www.poulan-pro.com/products/tractors/lawn_tractors/prod_PD1842ST.asp

Slam

SPIKER · Jun 23, 2004

I have a NEWIER murry, 46" cut with 20HP IC brigs with pressure oil feed & filter. it had one spindle problem and was actually not the spindles fault but the result of a blade not being installed properly which was left not setting ON the lip right, this left off center and it viberated, so the bearing eventually went out. just replaced it for a total cost of about 25 bucks the spindle mount bearings shaft spacer and blade mount. If I would have checked it out rather than leaving it destruct it would have been a 1.95 fix.... I also kept the old one can fix it for about 9 bucks with new uper bearing and a new lower blade mount. every thing else been OK, ride is not best but I have very rough ground. lots of old dead furows and such, my yard is basically relaimed pasture/field... I think it was tilled and not even disked to flatten it out. someday I will remidy that. mine was a closeout from Q farm& fleet. paid somethihg like 1200 out the door. now i have MAINTAINED it which consists of grease & oil changes as well as 2 sets of blades so far... NEW gator blades are very nice much heavier than factory stuff.. cut is much better much finer clippings. I wish the bagger/plastic shoot was easly removeable though as I hate it as it clumps pretty bad. Only thing I can't seem to find is a actuall way to check the rear end gear drive trans for lube? anyone have a clue as to how it is checked what goes in there and how much??? does not seem to have any drain plaugs or level plugs. I didn't get any CORRECT manuals for it as it was assemebed and shipped to my local store from some other store... one paperwork I did get said tecumpse engine and automatic transmittion, it does not have either one! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif anyhow any help would be nice. don't have modle or pn handy as it is at the farm.

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

slammer · Jun 23, 2004

Can't really help you without the model. But, on some Murrays you have to remove the rear fenders/seat assy to access the tranny plug. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I hope yours is new enough that that is not the case. Of course depending on the tranny source it could very well be a "maint. free unit", though I consider that an oxymoron. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Slam

Travis_R · Jun 23, 2004

Spiker,

I don't know what year or model you have. But, I have heard that on the new ones, you don't lube the transmission. They are maintenance free, like Slammer said. I sure wish they had check/fill/drain plugs on them. Seem like they would last longer if you could change the trans. oil. Even though, I haven't heard of ANY Murray or Craftsman transmission going out.
So, going by what I was told, you don't lube the transmission until it goes out. That is when you take it apart, fix it, and replace/refill with new oil, and put it back together.

Hope this helps ya,
Travis

jayhawkRoy · Jun 23, 2004

My family is kind of running an experiment in lawn tractors, quite by accident. We own a Murray (5 yrs old), a Craftsman (3 yrs old), and a JD 325 (7 yrs old). All are in the 17-18 HP range. Hands down the JD 325 wins, on lower aftermarket cost and ease of operation. It also cost three times as the other two, but it is our point of comparison.

Murray: B&S engine, no oil filter, hydrostatic trans, similar foot pedal arrangement to the JD 325, 46" deck. Warranty issue: mower deck came apart (sheet metal screw held deck together). Warranty repair was nuts, bolts, washers, all well done and still holds the deck together. Also purchased chains and blade from Murray and freighted to our door. Blade works great for snow, and mower deck is removable, but it is not removed very often. Parts are purchased on line. Overall annual costs about $30 per year.

Craftsman: Kohler engine w/oil filter, "automatic" (has clutch, brake, and hand throttle control -- how automatic is that?) trans. Sears does not recommend removing the deck, and blade replacement is done from underneath. Also, blades are recommended to be replaced and not sharpened. Have done both and have problems with home-sharpened blades. Deck appears to be fairly well made, so long as you don't remove it. Costs approx $80 per year for replacement blades, Kohler air and oil filter. Except for oil filter, have not found aftermarket replacements. No Warranty work done, but steering wheel is getting loose, now it is out of warranty. Took it apart and cannot determine problem, so will use it until it breaks.

In our big picture, we would keep the Murray and sell the Craftsman. The Craftsman is more suited for one acre or less. The Murray mows two to four rough acres and has held up fairly well. It's parts are fairly cheap when you do need a repair. The Craftsman could not mow where the Murray mows without serious running gear problems, not to mention beating up on the driver's rear end. The best part of the Craftsman is the Kohler engine, but it is too small a tractor for us, and I would not purchase another. I would consider replacing the Murray with another similar Murray, but I think we will go to a small subcompact diesel come replacement time. I would also consider some of the cheaper JD offerings, knowing my past JD experiences with their garden tractors.

Before you purchase, recommend taking a close look at Consumer Reports. In one of the past two month's issues, they tested garden tractors. They track performance and offer reliability histories. Hope this helps out in your purchase decision.

Rainbow6 · Jun 23, 2004

Here are the latest ratings from Consumer Reports, cut and pasted
Click for more information.
Brand and model Price Overall score Test results Features
Small type: similar model(s)
indicates a Quick Pick meriting first consideration.
CR Best Buy indicates an exceptional value.
HYDROSTATIC-DRIVE MODELS
1 John Deere L110 Automatic CR Best Buy $1800 42 17.5
2 Cub Cadet 19016 13AL11CG $1600 42 18.5
3 White Outdoor LT1650
Outdoor LT1855H $1700
$2000 42 16.5
4 John Deere LT160 $2600 42 16
5 Simplicity Regent 16hp 44" $2800 44 16
6 Toro Wheel Horse 16-38 HXL $2150 38 16
7 Kubota T1670 40" $3000 40 15
8 Kubota T1670 44" $3400 44 15
9 John Deere L120 Automatic $2200 48 20
10 Craftsman (Sears) DYT 4000 27364 $1700 42 18.5
11 Husqvarna YTH1542XP $2000 42 15
12 Simplicity Regent 16hp 38" $2500 38 16
13 Craftsman (Sears) 27350 $2150 42 14.5
14 Murray Select 465600x8A
Select 465306x8A $1200
$1400 46 21
15 Husqvarna LTH1742 $1400 42 17
16 Snapper LT180H42IBV2 $3000 42 18
GEAR-DRIVE MODELS
17 John Deere L100 $1500 42 17
18 Craftsman (Sears) 27275 $1000 42 18
19 Craftsman (Sears) 27347 $1500 42 20
20 Murray Select 425000x8A
Select 425001x8A $1000
$1000 42 16.5
PEDAL-DRIVE MODELS
21 Troy-Bilt 13AJ609G CR Best Buy $1350 42 18.5
MANUAL-DRIVE MODELS
22 Bolens 13AN683G
Troy-Bilt 13AN689G766 $1000
$1000 42 17
TIGHT-TURNING MODELS
23 John Deere Spin-Steer SST-16 $3300 42 16
24 Cub Cadet Z-Force 44 $3600 44 15
25 Toro 16-42Z Timecutter $3100 42 16
26 Ariens Zoom 1640 915035
Zoom 1640 915051 $3300
$3300 40 16

Rainbow6 · Jun 23, 2004

More Consumer Reports stuff..

Quick Picks

Best for most; versatile mowing at a reasonable price:
1 John Deere, $1800, CR Best Buy
10 Craftsman (Sears), $1700
21 Troy-Bilt, $1350, CR Best Buy

A notably level cut helps make the John Deere L110 Automatic (1) our top pick. The less expensive Troy-Bilt 13AJ609G (21) gives up some evenness for better dispersal when side-discharging. Consider the Craftsman (Sears) DYT 4000 27364 (10) if you're willing to trade some performance for an electric PTO and other added features. While the Cub Cadet 19016 13AL11CG (2) offers impressive performance and the Toro Wheel Horse 16-38 HXL (6) superior mulching, both brands have been among the more repair-prone in our survey.

For large, wide-open spaces:
5 Simplicity, $2800
9 John Deere, $2200

Consider the 44-inch Simplicity Regent 16hp 44" (5) for its better mulching, the 48-inch John Deere L120 Automatic (9) for its added width and lower price. Also consider the 46-inch Murray Select 465600x8A (14) if you don't mind giving up some performance for more width at a still-lower price.

Ledgemere Farm · Jun 23, 2004

My dad has a crapsman. He has had it for years and, strangely, it has never caused him a bit of trouble. I would choose the Sears. Just don't ever try to get them to come FIX anything.

Zoomie · Jun 23, 2004

( Glad you have had such good luck. )

Meeeee too! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Travis_R · Jun 23, 2004

I will not go over a thousand dollars. As a matter of fact, I would like to stay under a thousand, if possible. I did look at Poulan Pro mowers on the net. I couldn't find any price though.

So far, from what I understand from ya'll's opinions, Craftsman has Murray beat. I still want a lot more opinions before I make my choice.

I DID read the consumer affairs report on Murray and Craftsman mowers. I still want to choose between the two brands though. I am somewhat mechanically inclined, so I should be able to fix something if it breaks. But, I am not sure if I want to buy the Maintenance Agreement from Sears, if I choose the Craftsman. After reading the report on that, I am not sure at all.

Another main concern, like I have already posted, is hydrostatic or manual transmission. Which transmission has more trouble? Maintenance? Reliability?
Also, what causes a Murray Hydro trans. to "whine" when going up a hill and the wheels aren't spinning. The mower just stops. Is this hard to fix? Could it just need a new drive belt? Are there any adjustments on the hydrostatic trans.?

Thanks,
Travis

Rainbow6 · Jun 24, 2004

If you stay under 1 grand I really believe there is not much difference in whats out there. I suppose a bit thicker gauge deck might be one to look for, and maybe test the steering wheel for play. Also, one might offer a bit better warrenty on the belt life, I dunno... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

slammer · Jun 24, 2004

There are several Hydrostatic trannies in use. A tranny that whines loudly or flat refuses to pull is getting ready to have a major come apart. Check the fluid level immediately, do not pass go or collect $200!

Under a grand......that's tough. How much yard are you mowing again?

Slam

Travis_R · Jun 24, 2004

I have decided that I am going to go with a MANUAL transmission. I just don't trust the hydrostatic ones. I feel that the manual will last longer.

I will be cutting 2 and a half to 3 acres. Probably no more than that because I want a compact tractor to do the rest with a brush cutter.

I personally can't see spending any more than a thousand, maybe $1200.00 on a mower whenever I can fix it if anything goes wrong. If I wasn't able or wasn't a little "mechanically inclined", then I would buy a more expensive mower that I could take to the dealer If I had a problem with it. Also, I couldn't buy a "name brand" because of my budget! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Travis R

slammer · Jun 24, 2004

(
I will be cutting 2 and a half to 3 acres. Probably no more than that because I want a compact tractor to do the rest with a brush cutter.)

Travis if you are going to mow three acres your going to need a good sized machine. That is actually quite a bit to ask of a $1000 tractor of any brand.

I would suggest you get the largest possible engine and deck you can afford to minimize the hours on the mower. 18hp/46" cut minimum IMO. I know people will pipe in that they mow 3 acres weekly with their 12hp/38" cut but that is really tough on a small machine. Good luck bud, I think your gonna need it. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Slam