Comparison MX5400 Shuttle vs hst

[Sawyer Rob]

The truth is, how long a dry clutch last is more dependent on the operator than it is the type of clutch!!!

I've yet to have a dry clutch on one of my tractors fail on me, my neighbor has to put one in his tractor every 6 months or so... Watch him run the tractor and you can see why!

SR

 

[ptsg]

The truth is, how long a dry clutch last is more dependent on the operator than it is the type of clutch!!!

I've yet to have a dry clutch on one of my tractors fail on me, my neighbor has to put one in his tractor every 6 months or so... Watch him run the tractor and you can see why!

SR

This! Totally true! It does seem that a simple clutch pedal it's an extremely complicated thing to master for some people.

Over here, there are no HST tractors, unless it's special order.

Any good operator will put thousands of hours on a clutch, even with a loader on it. It's not uncommon to hear about the first clutch change at 4 or 5 thousand hours. Of course, 90% the cases, the tractor has only one operator. How many hydraulic oil and filter changes would a HST tractor have in 5k hours? It probably would pay for 3 or 4 clutches.

 

[rScotty]

This! Totally true! It does seem that a simple clutch pedal it's an extremely complicated thing to master for some people.

Over here, there are no HST tractors, unless it's special order.

Any good operator will put thousands of hours on a clutch, even with a loader on it. It's not uncommon to hear about the first clutch change at 4 or 5 thousand hours. Of course, 90% the cases, the tractor has only one operator. How many hydraulic oil and filter changes would a HST tractor have in 5k hours? It probably would pay for 3 or 4 clutches.

I'd agree with that. Back when I had a mechanical repair shop, replacing customer clutches and throwout bearings were like brake jobs and tune-ups... a staple of the business. Clutch jobs are a simple straightforward replacement with minimal machine shop work, but with lots of simple mindless labor time. Businesses need that kind of work.
But my own machines have never seemed to need clutch work and I noticed the same for the mechanic's cars & trucks. So I conclude that the life of a standard dry clutch depends mostly on the operator.

OK, to answer your question, ptsg.... We change HST oil and filters annually or every 600 to 750 hrs. A trans/hydralic oil change costs roughly $400 to $500 materials per time and takes a couple of hours. Our labor is free, so in 5000 hrs we would expect 7 or 8 changes for $3000 to $4000 dollars - or about the same as a couple of clutch jobs. But we would still have to change the hydraulic oil even if we had a manual clutch. So those oil changes would still cost $2000 to $3000.

My favorite transmission has long been is a powershift with hydraulic reverser, and least favorite is the traditional foot-clutched non-syncro straight manual gear & range shift.
However, for our last new tractor (we usually buy used) is a HST+. It hasn't had a bit of problem doing some pretty hard work for 12 years now. And it is very handy to use in tight places. I'd say the HST is better for all the day-to-day "jump on the tractor" kind of chore jobs. The powershifting reverser better for Agriculture work. Both are durable.

rScotty

 

[ptsg]

I'd agree with that. Back when I had a mechanical repair shop, replacing customer clutches and throwout bearings were like brake jobs and tune-ups... a staple of the business. Clutch jobs are a simple straightforward replacement with minimal machine shop work, but with lots of simple mindless labor time. Businesses need that kind of work.
But my own machines have never seemed to need clutch work and I noticed the same for the mechanic's cars & trucks. So I conclude that the life of a standard dry clutch depends mostly on the operator.

OK, to answer your question, ptsg.... We change HST oil and filters annually or every 600 to 750 hrs. A trans/hydralic oil change costs roughly $400 to $500 materials per time and takes a couple of hours. Our labor is free, so in 5000 hrs we would expect 7 or 8 changes for $3000 to $4000 dollars - or about the same as a couple of clutch jobs. But we would still have to change the hydraulic oil even if we had a manual clutch. So those oil changes would still cost $2000 to $3000.

My favorite transmission has long been is a powershift with hydraulic reverser, and least favorite is the traditional foot-clutched non-syncro straight manual gear & range shift.
However, for our last new tractor (we usually buy used) is a HST+. It hasn't had a bit of problem doing some pretty hard work for 12 years now. And it is very handy to use in tight places. I'd say the HST is better for all the day-to-day "jump on the tractor" kind of chore jobs. The powershifting reverser better for Agriculture work. Both are durable.

rScotty

I agree with you in everything you said. Power shuttle is the best of both worlds indeed.

I have nothing against HST. In fact, it would probably be the right choice for my use. But seeing some people making such a big deal on a simple clutch just grinds my gears a little bit. Maybe they need to figure out how to properly use a clutch.

On the HST+, the main thing I care is the dual speed feature they offer. I bet that feature gets used a lot.

 

[5030]

With an automobile or a pickup truck, a clutch job is easy (unless it's a transverse engine). On a tractor, 99% of clutches require splitting the unit and with a bigger unit, that becomes a chore that most people leave to a shop and shop rates are running around 130 an hour. Between the labor and the parts, you can change a lot of fluid and filters and then there is downtime too.

With a wet pack and no clutch in the bellhousing, you get the best of both worlds. An infinity mopdulatable wet clutch, minimal wear (immersed in oil) and long life. Like I said, I have 5000 farm hours on my one tractor and the pack has never been adjusted (for lock up pressure) and it does serious loader work constantly. For me, the choice is very clear. For you. maybe not. You get fantastic life (clutch pack) and little parasitic power loss (gear drive transmission) and it don't take expensive fluid, ordinary hydraulic fluid with an EP additive for the gear transmission is all that is required.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I've put semi load after semi load of this stuff, on my fields,

That's with a syncro shuttle (not power) and my leg didn't fall off, I could walk straight after every day and both of these tractors still have the original clutches in them!

AND I didn't have to listen to the diesel roaring away while I load or the whiner tranny, whining either!

SR

 

[LouNY]

The truth is, how long a dry clutch last is more dependent on the operator than it is the type of clutch!!!

I've yet to have a dry clutch on one of my tractors fail on me, my neighbor has to put one in his tractor every 6 months or so... Watch him run the tractor and you can see why!

SR

yep, clutches are very infrequently changed

 

[rScotty]

I've put semi load after semi load of this stuff, on my fields,

That's with a syncro shuttle (not power) and my leg didn't fall off, I could walk straight after every day and both of these tractors still have the original clutches in them!

AND I didn't have to listen to the diesel roaring away while I load or the whiner tranny, whining either!
SR

Maybe that's because one of the tricks us old clutch guys learn is to pick a gear - or a range - and stay in it. No clutching required and speed is varied with the throttle.

One correction though, the modern HSTs don't have the diesel roaring away like the old ones did. Today's HSTs can have automatic throttle load response & automatic return to idle.
On our HST+ tranny, when I advance the HST control to get going, the engine only revs as much as it needs to match the load. And the moment I back off on the HST rocker the engine immediately returns to idle.
So the old HST "max RPM diesel roar all the time" problem is no longer necessary. You can buy a HST that doesn't do that. Although I notice that on ours there is also an over-ride control lever so I can set it to be constantly roaring away at full throttle if I'd rather. (I'd rather not)
rScotty

 

[5030]

I've put semi load after semi load of this stuff, on my fields,

That's with a syncro shuttle (not power) and my leg didn't fall off, I could walk straight after every day and both of these tractors still have the original clutches in them!

AND I didn't have to listen to the diesel roaring away while I load or the whiner tranny, whining either!

SR

Betcha got a lot of weeds........................:laughing:

 

[3gunr]

Before i got my hst i thought my shuttle was the only way to go.Now i love my hst . I also have bad knees so not having to clutch is great. i can also go back and forth with loader or brush cutter while looking backward without having to stop turn around shift then turn back. saves a ton of time.