My Brothers Estate

[California]

... the ways the undertaker has to work to make a body presentable for a viewing,.... are things, you don't know, and should never know. So I'm going to be cremated with out a viewing.

We can only imagine. No thanks.

A branch of wife's family does open-casket funerals. I'm not going to another. My last straw was the memorial service where an elder relative, an-old-time-religion pastor, did the service. His theme was that the true Christians among those present would know that the deceased, a very much loved aunt to many there, hadn't loved any of us because she was a true Christian so she had loved only Jesus and we had meant nothing to her. Wtf???

Cremation for us.

 

[Sigarms]

Having been raised in a Funeral Home,.... I can say that the best funerals, are the ones that you make, and don't let the Funeral Director lead you into anything you don't want. It can be a nasty profession, with up-selling. So my Will has provisions in it, so that things are done on the cheaper side. They are not legally binding, but do give direction to the survivors as how I want them to deal with it, with as little fuss as possible.

I think the funeral home business is like every other business, you have good people and bad people in the profession. We've been blessed in that our dealings with funeral homes have been really nothing short of wonderful given the circumstances.

After my father passed away early in the AM in the hospital, I realized what a big business the dying are, and realized that "business" is literally open 24/7.

One thing we did pass on was prayer cards for my fathers service. Could never figure out the popularity of them when I was a kid going to relatives funerals.

 

[tradosaurus]

So if I have a closed coffin funeral do I really need to be presentable?

 

[tradosaurus]

When her own mother passed she put Mom in the car and drove to the crematorium. I think as her mother had directed. About as DIY as you can get!

I have this picture in my head of Aunt Edna riding on top of a station wagon after passing away.

 

[IndyJay]

So if I have a closed coffin funeral do I really need to be presentable?

Hah... do you even have to be present?

 

[Sigarms]

So if I have a closed coffin funeral do I really need to be presentable?

It's a question of how one grieves IMO given the circumstances of death and your own belief system.

When my son died this year, his ashes were not at the service only 5 miles down the road from our house.

When my father died this year, his ashes were at the service 480 miles away and we literally drove my father there.

I was told at my aunts funeral years ago that a lot of people have "closure" if there is a open casket and you can see the body. Always thought that was interesting because the person you are looking at "dead" is no longer the person you knew.

For myself, when the soul is no longer in the body (body being the vessel of the soul and person you "knew" IMO), what really matters what happens to the "vessel"?

No different than my aunt telling me that the Russian Orthodox doesn't believe in cremation. Then again, had another aunt tell me that no where in the bible does it state that a body can not be cremated.

Whatever floats your boat and helps you grieve IMO...

From my fathers point (and a financial point) cremation most likely reduces the cost by half of a "full funeral". Only reason why my father got "planted" is because it was at a national cemetery and his ashes would be laid upon my mother, who was buried in a casket and he wanted his final remains with her.

 

[Pixguy]

As I grew and attended wakes with open caskets I often wondered why. Why would you want to be seen with make up to bring the color (usually fake looking) cotton balls in the cheeks and the other things that have to be done to to look presentable? I told my loved ones early on, closed casket for me. Then as I reached 40 I took another look at that and said Cremation. As Sigarms so aptly stated, it's not the soul, not the person, just the vessel. I'm not sure where my wife will put my ashes but I've given her a few ideas.

Sorry Ed

 

[tradosaurus]

It's a question of how one grieves IMO given the circumstances of death.

When my son died this year, his ashes were not at the service only 5 miles down the road from our house.

When my father died this year, his ashes were at the service 480 miles away and we literally drove my father there.

I was told at my aunts funeral that a lot of people have "closure" if there is a open casket and you can see the body. Always thought that was interesting because the person you are looking at "dead" is no longer the person you knew.

For myself, when the soul is no longer in the body (body being the vessel of the soul and person you "knew" IMO), what really matters what happens to the "vessel"?

No different than my aunt telling me that the Russian Orthodox doesn't believe in cremation. Then again, had another aunt tell me that no where in the bible does it state that a body can not be cremated.

Whatever floats your boat and helps you grieve IMO...

From my fathers point (and a financial point) cremation most likely reduces the cost by half of a "full funeral". Only reason why my father got "planted" is because it was at a national cemetery and his ashes would be laid upon my mother, who was buried in a casket and he wanted his final remains with her.

That's why I can't be cremated. The traditional Catholic Church, all the way back to the early Church fathers, opposed cremation because it was often practiced by atheists to deny the resurrection of the body. The Church prohibited cremation and required the bodies of the faithful to be buried. (An exception was given in times of mass death and the threat of disease).
Those individuals who had directed their bodies to be cremated were denied ecclesiastical burial

Even in the Vatican 2 Church (as opposed to the Catholic Church) the cremated remains can not be present during the vigil or wake service, or during the "mass", since the regular liturgical prayers and actions are designed to honor the body.

St. Paul compares the burial of the Christian to the sowing of seeds. “What is sown in corruption rises in incorruption; what is sown in dishonor rises in glory; what is sown in weakness rises in power; what is sown a natural body rises a spiritual body ” (I Cor., 15: 42-44). Indeed, Christ rose from the dead after His burial, “the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep ” (I Cor., 15:20).

The fact is Christians didn't practice cremation until corruption from the world took over the majority of churches.

 

[Sigarms]

That's why I can't be cremated. The traditional Catholic Church, all the way back to the early Church fathers, opposed cremation because it was often practiced by atheists to deny the resurrection of the body. The Church prohibited cremation and required the bodies of the faithful to be buried. (An exception was given in times of mass death and the threat of disease).
Those individuals who had directed their bodies to be cremated were denied ecclesiastical burial

Even in the Vatican 2 Church (as opposed to the Catholic Church) the cremated remains can not be present during the vigil or wake service, or during the "mass", since the regular liturgical prayers and actions are designed to honor the body.

St. Paul compares the burial of the Christian to the sowing of seeds. “What is sown in corruption rises in incorruption; what is sown in dishonor rises in glory; what is sown in weakness rises in power; what is sown a natural body rises a spiritual body ” (I Cor., 15: 42-44). Indeed, Christ rose from the dead after His burial, “the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep ” (I Cor., 15:20).

The fact is Christians didn't practice cremation until corruption from the world took over the majority of churches.

Ironic...

My father was kicked out of the Catholic church for marrying a woman outside his religion, however he never "officially" converted to my mothers religion, and it was my moms sister (not blood related to my father) who told me that the Russian Orthodox church doesn't believe in cremation when my father was never "Russian Orthodox" to begin with.

If there is a all powerful God of Abraham that controls our universe, I can't help but think that He doesn't really gives a rat's butt on exactly how your buried as there are more important things on his plate. But hey, who knows, I sure as don't.

That said, if you feel you need to be planted in the ground due to religious beliefs, we go back to "whatever floats your boat", just give everyone else the same latitude in their own beliefs.

 

[airbiscuit]

This thread has drifted from Eddies original intention.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm a transplant to SE Tennessee from Arizona. First time cars stopped in front of me on a 4 lane highway with left turn lane for a procession going the opposite direction, I about crapped my pants.
Still can't get used to it after 6 years. BTW MossRoad, I grew up in N.L.. Close to you.

Small world again. We have land half way between NL and SB. Just went through NL about 6 times in the past week for various reasons SW of SB.

FBI
CIA
MYOB
PDQ



JG HS?

 

[Sigarms]

This thread has drifted from Eddies original intention.

With over 4,000 posts on your end, this is the first time you noticed something like that?

 

[tradosaurus]

Yes, I've read Julia Mitford. If i was to write a book, memoir, it would be far more revealing than that. We as young children would huff the smelling salts. But its all good, and most people don't have to know about it anyway. Like, walk away from the entire system and do your own.
Once being a child, there was a skirted carriage, around a coffin. an under carriage of the trolley of the coffin, that I hid under for an entire Ceremony. Everyone left for a moment, and I escaped undetected. The fact that a dead body was over me, was entirely inconsequential. We always had dead bodies in the morgue. God didn't see me there.

What I was being taught, to do as an apprentice undertaker, I would not wish on any one, as to the full body preserved type of funeral. I can only say it is... I'm lost for a word here, in the ways the undertaker has to work to make a body presentable for a viewing,.... are things, you don't know, and should never know. So I'm going to be cremated with out a viewing.

What is the cheapest way to get buried? Pine box and no prep of the body for closed casket?

 

[MossRoad]

This thread has drifted from Eddies original intention.

Yes, probably.

Get your wills made, your business in order, and try not to leave a mess for your loved ones when you're gone about says it all, to me at least.

 

[JasperFrank]

I would add to what Moss said here, that in your Will, you can certainly give a direction. Other people might not like it in the family, yet, "It Is Written," and this makes the job of an executor or an administrator, much easier, as they don't have to arbitrate amongst the family members.

 

[MossRoad]

I would add to what Moss said here, that in your Will, you can certainly give a direction. Other people might not like it in the family, yet, "It Is Written," and this makes the job of an executor or an administrator, much easier, as they don't have to arbitrate amongst the family members.

Hey, I'd give you more money if it was up to me. I really would. But old Bob there specified in his will that you only get a dollar, and I'm just following the law. I don't want to get in trouble.

 

[JasperFrank]

Contrary to popular belief there is no law, that says you have to setup a minimal inheritance, in order to exclude a person from contesting a Will. Any Will can be contested, an any estate can be "sued." The "dollar" inheritance is there, just so there is less of a chance, of that happening and this goes through civil courts, that a jury or a judge that would recognize this as a stated intent.
These things don't happen in 99% of how estates are settled. Its the 1%, of huge estates, that makes these things seem like they are real, in popular media, and convince people that they should be concerned about it.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Hah... do you even have to be present?

I am amazed at the number of people who turn up at funerals these days who have no direct relationship or contact with the deceased and did not really know them or had not seen them for many years. How many will have ascertained that the object being buried/cremated actually contains the remains of the deceased? What is the value of organs from a deceased nowadays?

Having participated in this forum for s few years I have formed the opinion that the OP (Eddie Walker) is a man who sees the broader things in life, so I offer this as an alernative view and whilst it is my own preference for a rendition it should be noted that it is originally an English song from at least about 100 years ago

.

I was told at my aunts funeral years ago that a lot of people have "closure" if there is a open casket and you can see the body. Always thought that was interesting because the person you are looking at "dead" is no longer the person you knew.

The only person I have seen in an open casket was my father and if I had not expected it to be him I would not have known. He did not look like the man I knew.

The fact is Christians didn't practice cremation until corruption from the world took over the majority of churches.

What corruption? Are you claiming that non Christians do not really have a religion so should not "contaminate" Christian beliefs? What if they are right and you are wrong?

If there is a all powerful God of Abraham that controls our universe, I can't help but think that He doesn't really gives a rat's butt on exactly how your buried as there are more important things on his plate.

If is a very big word. If, as you say, there is one, then I totally agree it (cannot make it male in these days of everything being equal) would not give a rat's a**e.

 

[Sigarms]

Contrary to popular belief there is no law, that says you have to setup a minimal inheritance, in order to exclude a person from contesting a Will. Any Will can be contested, an any estate can be "sued." The "dollar" inheritance is there, just so there is less of a chance, of that happening and this goes through civil courts, that a jury or a judge that would recognize this as a stated intent.
These things don't happen in 99% of how estates are settled. Its the 1%, of huge estates, that makes these things seem like they are real, in popular media, and convince people that they should be concerned about it.

Will vs. Trust: Which Is Right For You?

A will takes effect upon death but trusts can be used both during the lives and after the deaths of the grantor, or creator.

www.investopedia.com

I'm not as bad as I thought. My wife reminded me that we already have a trust set up. I hate to say this, but I hope I go before her as I'll be lost without her

The irony is she is on about 13 trusts for suppressors and she doesn't even know it. That said, I have some good friends who will handle all the guns for her whom I trust if something should befell me.

 

[MossRoad]

Interesting about open caskets. I'd guess 99% of the funerals I've been to in my life were open casket. Cremations and urns aren't caskets, so those don't count. Really, I can only recall maybe 1 or 2 at the most were closed casket, and that was at the request of the deceased through pre-planning.

One funeral home our family and friends use used to have a pink light over the casket. When I was a little kid, my dad pointed it out and told me it resembled the light at the meat counter. It made the deceased look better. Every time I went to that funeral home over the decades, I'd always see that light. I've been to half a dozen funerals there in the past 2 years and it's not as pink anymore. To their credit, they do an excellent job with pre-planning, and really go out of their way to make the process as stress free as possible for the deceased's survivors. 3rd or 4th generation family business. Very good people.