My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese?

   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #11  
Soundguy,
Let the burnings begin. How will the song sound in a few years when the green and blue tractors are made in China too /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I expect that there are Chineese parts on them now.
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #12  
Personal experience...About 15 years ago, the company where I work decided to buy a milling machine. I don't remember the prices anymore, but it was decided that we buy a new, Taiwanese milling machine as opposed to a used name-brand, Bridgeport milling machine. Taiwan makes some fair products, parts support should be decent, we are working with a well-established local dealer and everything looks good. We should save some money. In short, we did our homework.
The decision made sense on paper. The milling machine was not an integral tool of our work, it was kind of a convenience purchase. Well, you know how it goes...once you have it, you can't do without it.
Then something breaks...
"That model no longer has parts support" is what our dealer reported. Now what do we do? We scrambled to find somebody in the US. who makes their living selling parts for Taiwanese milling machines to suckers like us. Virtually a dead end, but we found parts. Crazy expensive.
Luckily, our maintenance guy is REALLY handy and inventive. It gets cobbled together and works. But we spent twice the time making the part that we needed rather than buying it. Result: lots of time wasted and intangible "money" spent.
Then it happens again a few years later! Different problem, much worse this time, virtually terminal. Pay up for the parts and wait weeks for them to come. In the meantime, work backs up and you sub out the work to a supplier.
I'm normally optimistic, but this is the way I now look at these types of purchases:
1) Expect the worst and if something less than terrible happens...you did OK.
2) Assume that the item will be worth scrap price when there are significant problems.
Do your math with this in mind and then make your decision. The work that you have to do with the tractor may still justify the Chinese tractor.
We are thinking of buying a machining center at work now. Virtually the same scenario, not a necessity, but a convenience. Given our experience...which fork of the road do you think that we will choose to follow?
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #13  
Here's my two cents worth. I owned a Chinese made Shenniu Bison for 5 years. Bought it new from Quality Farm & Fleet, everybody remember them? Anyhow if you ask any dealer if he will work on them they laugh at you. I was fortunate enough to be able to maintain it myself for the entire time that I owned it. Filters, water pumps, seals, hydraulic pumps it was all on my back to repair. It made me open my eyes real wide. Especially when you need to start looking for parts. This time, well I bought a New Holland TC-40D a few months ago and I'm not looking back now. Unless your a mechanic of sorts don't waste your money on Chinese, you won't be sorry later.
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #14  
Traci, none of us buy a house thinking it will burn down, but we darn sure buy insurance in case it does. I think that analogy fits for you. I believe you need that little extra insurance that a name brand tractor brings. My choice would be between new and used

Locust Grove is a long way from Richmond or some other metropolitan area where there is lots of help available. Do you have a local city or county garage where tractors are used and maintained on a regular basis? How about schools? Here in Texas we have school districts that have tractors and many of them are put up for sale after a few years. Even if none of these places has bid sales on tractors, they will probably be happy to give you some very solid advice.

I don't mean this in any derogatory way, but a person who changes oil with rubber gloves on doesn't sound like someone who really wants to do their own tractor repair. Do you have a Chinese tractor dealer in Locust Grove? How far away are the major brand guys? Have you looked at Massey-Ferguson?
There are many possibilities for 5-1/2 acres. If you buy John Deere, Kubota, New Holland, Ford, Massey, Case, International, etc, etc. you will have no trouble selling your tractor if you find out it's too much trouble to maintain or if it turns out to be too big or small.

...your house will probably never burn down, but doesn't a little insurance make you feel better? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #15  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I had to decided to just go with one of those cheapo chinese jobs (I can't really find anything that bad about them on the site) the price is so much cheaper and for what I need it for I think they might do the job if I could just get over the looks (rough casting etc.) )</font>

sounds to me u ain't all that impressed with whatever chinees tractor u were looking at, a name band might have been helpful. some of the chinese tractors are not to bad, but as with everything some will hate them and some will love them. Of course the same could be said about any of the big 3.
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #16  
I have a chinese tractor and it works just fine for me. Whether or not it will work for you is a decision only you can make.

The chinese forums are full of problems, because most of us wrench our own and that's the mechanism for fixing them.

What is the worst problem you are willing to fix yourself? Do you have a local chinese tractor dealer? If not, can you imagine breaking your tractor in half to fix/replace a clutch? After 1000 hrs of use, the clutch will have to be worked on. In my case, 1000 hrs is 10-15 years.
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #17  
Deer is already making a line for the asian market in china.. it will only be a matter of time before it all intertwines.


The whole cheap tractor issue is merrly a cost benefit ratio... yes you are getting a cheaply built.. lighter duty tractor.. and you are taking a gamble on it.. accordingly you are saving buku money too. If I didn't already own a NH.. I might be afraid to get one after seeing the dozens of complaints about creeping hydro trannies... or fogged up instrument clusters.. or stuck shock in the steering colum.. or the many posts about the few guys who got pretty much 'lemon' tractors.. brand new.. or the guys whos whole wheel or hub fell off.. etc, etc.. same with green.. if you read their forum, there are tons of warranty issues popping up there... every color has them.. and it is part of the game. ANY heavy equipment that runs ground engaging equipment is gonna break parts somewhere.. sometime.. nobody avoids it.. they eventually get you.. it is just a pay now or pay later issue.

The local massey ferguson dealer used to be a chinees tractor dealer.. oh.. 15 years ago.. can't remember the name of the line? bison? or something like that. I rode by their lot the other day.. and they have a used one sitting htere.. that was originally sold there years ago.. still has their old sticker on the dash... unit looks decent and beat up.. but all still stock... pretty good for old chi-com technology if you ask me..

Soundguy
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #18  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( What is the worst problem you are willing to fix yourself? Do you have a local chinese tractor dealer? If not, can you imagine breaking your tractor in half to fix/replace a clutch?)</font> I agree with DIYGuy, it has a lot to do with how much you're able to maintain on your own. The warranties are usually around 1 year and sometimes that's only for parts, not labor. The chinese tractors offer a pretty good bargain for the right, mechanically inclined persons, and once they work out a few of the problems inherent in these tractors, they usually don't have any more trouble than anyone else and they still saved thousands of dollars. At least that's my take after having researched all tractors I could for one year. John
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #19  
That could have went either way.. The GC I work for did the opposite of your company.. we bought a used milling machine.. brought it back to the shop.. looked great, sounded great.. on the first job, the cummins 290 engine blew up.. we bought a remanned 300 engine and swapped all the bolt on stuff over.. and have to improvise some motor mounts... so far we are about 9 grand inthe hole.. next couple days.. the supercharger goes out.. find out that the supercharger isn't serviced any more and is like 3k.. we convert to a turbo system for under 1k... a couple months later, the big diffy for the cutter goes out.. another 1k for the diffy and axle bearings, seals, etc. then a chain tensioner goes out on one side of the cutter box a month later.. can't buy it to save out lives.. had to have a machineist remove the other and fabricate a mirror of it for the other side.. actually got off cheap there... under 1k.. After owning the machine for 1 year.. we had 25k$ in repairs in it..... It is now a good running machine, and has been so for the last few years.. but at the prices we paid.. and the immediate failures.. on paper we would have been better to have bought a new foreign model....

Like anything though.. you buy used.. you pays yer money and you's takes yer chances...

Soundguy
 
   / My head is spinning! NH vs Chinese? #20  
I made several posts last summer regarding exactly the same question...

I was set to buy a New Holland tractor, but I continued to have the nagging question in my head whether to buy a Chinese tractor. For the same price as my TC18, I could have had a 25 hp tractor with a front end loader (which was over my budget on the NH). After agonizing over the decision, I finally went with the New Holland. I like the fact that my dealer has been in business for over 40 years and is right around the corner from me, as opposed to the other guy, who started selling the Chinese tractors a month before and wasn't very well educated on the product he was selling (Iknew more about them than he did). My NH is almost 1000 pounds lighter than the Chinese tractor I was looking at, which was important to me, since I'm tired of making ruts all over the place. The 18 hp NH does everything I need it to, and the easy availability of R4 tires was important to me also. The Chinese place wanted too much money and too many other headaches to switch to R4's from Ag tires.

I think I would have been happy with the Chinese tractor, but I love my New Holland! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

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