My hunt for a SCUT

[seijirou]

I'm in the market for a SCUT TLB. I don't exactly have a lot of land to mess with, only 1 acre and there's also a house and garage on it.

What I do have though is a lot of brush, cactus, and cedar saplings to clear out. The soil is ridiculous; I've never seen so many rocks. I want to churn them all up and out if I can, which might be futile, but ignorance is bliss? My wife is from Iowa and dreams of doing some micro-farming. She would just like a healthy garden and I want to try to make that happen for her. I also have a long list of other ground engaging projects but my free time is somewhat haphazard and I've found renting equipment to be challenging and stressful. I do also have some boulders to move around, I'll attach some pictures of those (with my wallet for scale!). I'm thinking if a SCUT isn't up to the task of dragging them around I could just rent something just to handle those and i'm pretty sure a SCUT can handle everything else. Seems silly to buy something bigger just to move some boulders that I likely wouldn't move again?



Anyway so far I've looked at several options. I really come in to this with no foreknowledge at all but thought I would share my initial takes but also bounce them against a wiser crowd that can tell me if I'm looking at things or thinking of things in the wrong way, and of course things I should be considering but maybe haven't been. I don't know what I don't know. After reading around here for the last couple weeks I did learn what SCUT and TLB mean so that's something. :thumbsup:

Also I'm kind of a big guy. 6'4" and north of 300lbs.
I looked at the following in order: JD 1 Family, Kioti CS2210, Branson 2400/2400h, Massey Ferguson GC1710, LS MT125, Mahindra eMAX, Kubota BX23S

JD 1023e/1025r
First impression didn't leave me particularly impressed, but I did not drive it. The dash was very sparse, not backlit. It took me a while to find the fuel gauge which I eventually found on the fender and it appears to be mechanical? I guess maybe that's arguably a good thing for longevity. The ergonomics were a little tight. Nothing was a show stopper but so many of the levers and handles were really tight to the seat. I do not like the funky cut height knob. The seat was comfortable though and I appreciated the tilt steering. I also really liked the position of the FEL joystick on the fender. I did not have an opportunity to sit in the backhoe position. The conversation with the salesman was interesting. He was very nice and polite, but offered basically no information. It was as if I didn't need to know any more than it's a Deere. He also all but told me that I couldn't run a backhoe on the 1023e and offered a story about some other dealer that did it against his better judgement and the tractor's now constantly in for warranty repairs. I don't know, but that story just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. Yes the R has a little more engine and 3PH position control, but all other differences are niceties like cruise control. Importantly (to my novice self anyhow, and this is where maybe the experienced guys can correct me) the hydraulics are exactly the same in terms of GPM. When I asked about price he just kind of tossed a number at me with some hand gestures to indicate it wasn't necessarily a firm price, but that was the end of it. It was tied for 2nd highest price.

Kioti CS2210
I fit this one a little better. The 4wd lever poked my calf a little but only if I didn't have my foot positioned to use the pedals so I didn't think that was too big of a deal. The seat was meh, and no armrests. I prefer the FEL joystick on the fender while this one was on the loader but at least the handle was long and ended up in a natural location. The length and bends to it though did seem to introduce a sense of "where am i?" but that would probably go away pretty quickly with practice. I liked where all the levers were except that 4WD lever. I like that the cut height is a lever on the left, but maybe my harry homeowner riding mower familiarity is showing too much on this one. No tilt steering but I don't recall the wheel feeling out of place. There was a knob on the dash that wasn't labeled and the dealer didn't know what it did, lol. I didn't hate it, and it didn't blow me away. They didn't have a backhoe mounted so I didn't get to try that out. The salesman was great and readily offered any information without pressuring me to agree with him about how great something was. He took the time to noodle out all the options comparing cash rebates vs. financing rates and gave me a quote sheet.

Branson 2400/2400h
Same dealer as the Kioti. These things are cramped! I'm pretty sure this is actually a CUT but with the bigger size I was surprised at how cramped it was. On the 2400h I practically had my knees in my chin to work the pedals and if I tried to place my foot on the floorboard behind the pedals there was some other lever that was jabbing me hard in the calf. Ergonomically there was no way it was going to work. I then sat on the 2400 with gears and it had some more room for me but still fairly cramped. For the kind of stuff that I'm going to be doing though, I see myself going forward and backwards a lot and I would only consider a gear transmission with a shuttle shift which this didn't have. I basically stopped looking at these pretty quickly.

Massey Ferguson GC1710
New dealer. I did some homework on all of these tractors before I looked at any of them and the GC1710 started out as the front runner. Sitting on it was comfortable and room was okay. I would hit my right knee on the throttle if it was all the way down. Otherwise it was similar to the Kioti in many things which was just fine, and in one thing which isn't fine being the feel of the FEL joystick. It felt unspecific like the Kioti which I'm guessing is due to the way it's mounted sideways to the dash and the long handle. I also found the FEL float detent to be very stiff, so much so I could feel a spring action of the handle before it would get past the detent and it just had a "you're going to break something" feel to it. Also the throttle was pretty stiff. This was the first tractor where I was able to sit on the backhoe and unfortunately that was the deal-breaker. Getting the seat into position just sucks and is begging to grab a finger in the seat frame. Getting on is awkward and I nearly hit my head on the ROPS. Sitting in the seat my head was only a few inches away from the top of the ROPS and I had to lean forward a bit to work the joysticks. Unfortunately the backhoe is just no good for someone my height. Shame because I really did want to like this tractor. The salesman was busy but great, much like the previous dealer. The price is tied for the lowest by a significant amount.

LS MT125
Same dealer as the MF. I didn't know a whole lot about this one because there just isn't much data about these out there. Sitting on this was comfortable. I'm not getting poked or bumped by any levers anywhere. The LS also has that mower height knob thing like the Deere which I don't like. The position of the key is under the wheel and center which is a little annoying for someone my size. No tilt steering, but I didn't find the wheel to be in a position that bothered me. Turning the seat around for the backhoe was straightforward, easy and didn't threaten to chomp my fingers. Getting on and off the backhoe was fine and there was plenty of room for me. Overall it fit my bigger frame much better, the joysticks were in a natural position. After getting carefully of the MF backhoe this LS backhoe was great. Again I like the salesman, the price was identical to the GC1710 so tied for the lowest and by quite a bit.

Mahindra eMAX
I didn't end up looking at these too hard because the salesman came out pretty quick so I got to talking to him almost right away and the price came out pretty quickly and good lord, it was high. The eMAX S 25HST is more than the Branson 2400h or the LSXG3025 TLB which is a full 2 steps up in size. When I told the dealer my budget he quickly steered me to the S 22 Gear which was just barely less than the JD or Kubota, and overall it just screamed chincy to me. Perhaps not in the engine, frame, FEL and backhoe, I don't know. Maybe those things are bulletproof but all the instrumentation, handle grips, the FEL joystick... my gut was just telling me to walk away. The salesman was nice and polite but didn't seem to have it together. I don't think he really knew anything about the tractors. This dealer is the closest to my house and to their credit, he said that he'd do free pickup and dropoff even for any warranty work if I ever needed it. The eMAX S 25HST was the most expensive to tune of 50% more than the MF or the LS.

Kubota BX23S
This one is tough. I just went there today and I have very little positive to say about the Kubota. It is probably the most spacious just sitting in the seat. The trundle pedal is just stupid. I didn't sit on the backhoe. The FEL joystick combined with the armrest was the best of all of them ergonomically. The dealer I went to had 6 of them outside. What a piece of crap. Every last one of them was rusting all over the place, even on the engine valvecovers. Just one example; there's a place where the FEL frame attaches to the subframe and clearly a larger spacer/collar/bushing/whatever was used at some point before paint, then paint happens, and it was then removed and replaced with a smaller one. So there's a perfect unpainted circle right on the frame rusting away, and they're all like that. The welds at the base of the ROPS are junk and also rusting. The throttle handle has a clear plastic window in it with a graphic under it showing the rabbit and turtle for engine speed, on all of the tractors that graphic looked like.. well what paper looks like when you leave it out in the weather for 2 weeks. I almost want to go back and take pictures because I almost couldn't believe it. I suppose maybe all 6 of these tractors had been sitting at the dealer outside for 9 months or something, I don't know. What I can say is I turned the key on for 2 of them and both showed less than 1 hour and both looked straight up 2 years old used at best. All I can say is I hope these were a crap batch and/or this is more a reflection of a dealer that doesn't care about their equipment though it's hard to blame the dealer for crap welds and crap paint. The salesman was polite and answered all my questions. The price was tied 2nd highest with the JD. This was also the only dealer that was going to charge me a delivery fee I guess to my driveway this was actually alone as the 2nd most expensive.

So the only options left really are the Kioti CS2210 and the LS MT125. For various reasons of either value or ergonomics the rest have taken themselves out of the running.

I have not test driven anything so I think that's the next thing to do, and the Kioti dealer said he had the backhoe for the CS so I'll have to call in the next couple of days and see if he'd be willing to put it on for a test drive.

So that's it, a bunch of tractor opinions from a guy who didn't even know what SCUT meant a month ago. Any and all thoughts and feedback are welcome, feel free to be blunt, I can take it! Thanks for reading. :drink:

 

[Tractorable]

You should also cross-shop the Yanmar SA424 TLB. Nice machine.

Yanmar is often overlooked but they're a great Japanese company with a 100+ year history building engines, tractors, construction equipment, and marine diesels. They also have a long partnership with John Deere building entire tractors and supplying all their engines for their compact tractors.

 

[jeff9366]

1) I'm in the market for a SCUT TLB. I have ONE (1) acre and there's a house and garage on it. Also I'm kind of a big guy. 6'4" and north of 300lbs.

2) What I do have though is a lot of brush, cactus, and cedar saplings to clear out. The soil is ridiculous; I've never seen so many rocks. I want to churn them all up and out if I can, which might be futile, but ignorance is bliss? My wife is from Iowa and dreams of doing some micro-farming. She would just like a healthy garden and I want to try to make that happen for her.

I have boulders to move around, I'll attach some pictures of those (with my wallet for scale!). I'm thinking if a SCUT isn't up to the task of dragging them around I could just rent something just to handle those and i'm pretty sure a SCUT can handle everything else. Seems silly to buy something bigger just to move some boulders that I likely wouldn't move again?

3) I also have a long list of other ground engaging projects but my free time is somewhat haphazard.

1) For one acre and the few tasks you have enumerated a 1,700 pound SCUT should be fine IF you can find one your generous corpus can sit on and operate comfortably. For comfort you may want to investigate 2,700 pound CUTS with <25-horsepower. Still small but more operating station room and more capable. In Kubota, this would be the L2501.

2) For a SCUT nothing improves capability more than a Ratchet Rake bucket attachment, which you can order from the T-B-N store, which acts as an agent. Ratchet Rake will drag out the brush and saplings, prize out the boulders.
If your initial garden aspirations are small, Ratchet Rake can remove sod and open the soil to 4" deep.

VIDEO: ratchet rake - YouTube

You should be able to tow the boulders with a nylon strap or chains from the tractor's rear/center drawbar. If you do not have enough traction you can buy an old car hood at a junkyard and use the hood as a boulder sled, nudging the boulders on the sled with FEL/Ratchet Rake.

Another option for transporting boulders is Three Point Hitch pallet forks, which can be angled down, somewhat, to get under the boulders. You would want the type with adjustable spread between fork tines. (However, sled suggestion will allow you to move heavier boulders than pallet forks.)
VIDEO: 3 point hitch pallet forks - YouTube


MICRO FARMING IMPLEMENTS: Buckeye Tractor Online Catalog - Garden Series Page 01


You will probably need herbicide to eliminate cactus but that depends on what cactus you have. Prickly Pear is the worst where I am.


3) Inform us of this long list of ground engagement tasks. We are panting in anticipation.

Nothing you have indicated requires a $6,000 backhoe. The Three Point Hitch is the key point on every tractor. Backhoe supplants the Three Point Hitch and must be removed to hook up Three Point Hitch implements.
MORE: Backhoe necessary? site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search


When you trial tractors be sure to collect a brochure for every model you find comfortable. Record bare tractor weights, the key metric for comparing apples-to-apples in tractors. I spreadsheet data, including a column for cost per pound.

 

[dodge man]

All I can add is ignore the cosmetics. When I bought my Kubota BX 10 years ago I looked at a used one. It looked terrible and had over a 1000 hours on it. It was only 3 or 4 thousand dollars less. Mine is now 10 years old now and I wish it looked as good as that used one I looked at 10 years ago. Using a tractor is hard on the appearance unless you really keep up on it. One of the most important issues is the reputation of the dealer. Even if you do your own repairs you still need the parts. If I was looking at a new SCUT I'd either get another Kubota or a Deere, but that's also the most common dealers in my area and the only dealers in my town of 20,000 people.

 

[plowhog]

Sorry to hear you didn't like the Massey. I have one and it performs flawlessly for me. Virtually every other owner response seems about the same.

I agree about turning the seat around for the backhoe. It took a while to learn how to quickly move it from forward to reverse. btw, I'm pretty good at it now, but if its a small/short digging job I just leave the seat in the forward position which works fine. They can't advise that for safety reasons, of course. I added a thumb to the backhoe and it does pretty good picking up big rocks.

 

[seijirou]

You should also cross-shop the Yanmar SA424 TLB. Nice machine.

Yanmar is often overlooked but they're a great Japanese company with a 100+ year history building engines, tractors, construction equipment, and marine diesels. They also have a long partnership with John Deere building entire tractors and supplying all their engines for their compact tractors.

Thank you. I will see if I can find a local dealer and check it out.

 

[seijirou]

1) For one acre and the few tasks you have enumerated a 1,700 pound SCUT should be fine IF you can find one your generous corpus can sit on and operate comfortably. For comfort you may want to investigate 2,700 pound CUTS with <25-horsepower. Still small but more operating station room and more capable. In Kubota, this would be the L2501.

2) For a SCUT nothing improves capability more than a Ratchet Rake bucket attachment, which you can order from the T-B-N store, which acts as an agent. Ratchet Rake will drag out the brush and saplings, prize out the boulders.
If your initial garden aspirations are small, Ratchet Rake can remove sod and open the soil to 4" deep.

VIDEO: ratchet rake - YouTube

You should be able to tow the boulders with a nylon strap or chains from the tractor's rear/center drawbar. If you do not have enough traction you can buy an old car hood at a junkyard and use the hood as a boulder sled, nudging the boulders on the sled with FEL/Ratchet Rake.

Another option for transporting boulders is Three Point Hitch pallet forks, which can be angled down, somewhat, to get under the boulders. You would want the type with adjustable spread between fork tines. (However, sled suggestion will allow you to move heavier boulders than pallet forks.)
VIDEO: 3 point hitch pallet forks - YouTube


MICRO FARMING IMPLEMENTS: Buckeye Tractor Online Catalog - Garden Series Page 01


You will probably need herbicide to eliminate cactus but that depends on what cactus you have. Prickly Pear is the worst where I am.


3) Inform us of this long list of ground engagement tasks. We are panting in anticipation.

Nothing you have indicated requires a $6,000 backhoe. The Three Point Hitch is the key point on every tractor. Backhoe supplants the Three Point Hitch and must be removed to hook up Three Point Hitch implements.
MORE: Backhoe necessary? site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search


When you trial tractors be sure to collect a brochure for every model you find comfortable. Record bare tractor weights, the key metric for comparing apples-to-apples in tractors. I spreadsheet data, including a column for cost per pound.

Thank you so much, this was really helpful.

Basically I have a number of trenching and digging jobs lined up. A lot of drainage, burying gas lines, burying power lines, deck footers, some stump removal, body disposal. That's probably it off the top of my head, and that will probably span a couple years. After that, I don't really know. I have a feeling things will come up but I don't deny there's a reasonable chance I'll spend $4,000 on a backhoe to do jobs I could have done in $1500 worth of rental time. I guess I'm betting that there will always be the next thing to do, and like I said my schedule is pretty chaotic which makes renting difficult.

That said I'm going to follow your search link and check myself.

 

[seijirou]

All I can add is ignore the cosmetics. When I bought my Kubota BX 10 years ago I looked at a used one. It looked terrible and had over a 1000 hours on it. It was only 3 or 4 thousand dollars less. Mine is now 10 years old now and I wish it looked as good as that used one I looked at 10 years ago. Using a tractor is hard on the appearance unless you really keep up on it. One of the most important issues is the reputation of the dealer. Even if you do your own repairs you still need the parts. If I was looking at a new SCUT I'd either get another Kubota or a Deere, but that's also the most common dealers in my area and the only dealers in my town of 20,000 people.

Thanks. Noted on the cosmetics. Yes I still have some homework to do on the dealers themselves as far as reputation, but your greater point isn't lost on me.

 

[seijirou]

Sorry to hear you didn't like the Massey. I have one and it performs flawlessly for me. Virtually every other owner response seems about the same.

I agree about turning the seat around for the backhoe. It took a while to learn how to quickly move it from forward to reverse. btw, I'm pretty good at it now, but if its a small/short digging job I just leave the seat in the forward position which works fine. They can't advise that for safety reasons, of course. I added a thumb to the backhoe and it does pretty good picking up big rocks.

I actually do like the Massey, I just don't fit on the Massey. It is what it is. I'm glad to hear that the seat is no problem with some experience and not a constant threat to the fingers, lol. The rest are really more observations than complaints. I'm very sure stiff throttle can be made smooth and I expect I'll forget about the joystick feel with a combination of experience and little breaking in. The detent can be worked on too. Chances are good that I would have purchased the Massey if I had fit on the backhoe. After Jeff's advice I'm going to take a hard look at whether or not I really need the backhoe and if not I would say the 1705 is absolutely on the table and possibly a frontrunner.

 

[frugalangler]

I have the 1720 and am big at 6'3", I've found that if using the BH a lot, I remove the backrest from the seat and put it in the BH position, then I can move the tractor around from the operator position just fine by sitting forward on the seat, that way I'm comfortable in BH operation position. Also, there's a quick easy mod to the seat bracket on YouTube on how to move the seat a couple inches back so you clear the throttle lever w/ your knee, so that might help also. Also, when mounting the BH I usually deploy one outrigger 1/2 way and use as a step, makes it a WHOLE lot easier to slip into the BH operation position and not clunk your head. So, you might consider those items before discounting the 1710/20 totally.