My letter to Kioti, loader rerepair, long

kiotimiike · May 22, 2006

If the try and repair mine in the same way yours was done,they will be the proud owners of it ! I did weld for a living and can't imagine doing a hack job like that on someones brand new tractor. Even with paint your repair was not up to par.

kiotimiike · May 22, 2006

If the try and repair mine in the same way yours was done,they will be the proud owners of it ! I did weld for a living and can't imagine doing a hack job like that on someones brand new tractor. Even with paint your repair was not up to par.

mwood · May 22, 2006

Your dealer sent that to a professional welding shop? I'd get their name! You'll never want to take anything there! You're right. He should have rejected the work first thing. A real welding shop could cut curves out of metal that look better than that!

Glad to hear there is progress from Kioti's end though.

mwood · May 22, 2006

Your dealer sent that to a professional welding shop? I'd get their name! You'll never want to take anything there! You're right. He should have rejected the work first thing. A real welding shop could cut curves out of metal that look better than that!

Glad to hear there is progress from Kioti's end though.

Bob_Skurka · May 22, 2006

I think the only way to fix this right is the same way that one dealer did with the ugly angle iron. 

I think a fairly simple fix would involve a slight re-design. Instead of running the hoses through the inside of a thin-wall cross brace, it strikes me that the hoses could be run along the surface of a heavier wall cross brace. So if it was me, I'd cut the cross brace out, install a thicker wall version of one that did not have the access panel, and plumb hydraulic pipe across there, or a less expensive answer would be to run hose across the exterior, but still do the repair by inserting a thicker wall brace in place of the current one.

Attached is a photo of a Montana tractor's loader. It is also a curved arm loader, it has the solid cross brace (no access panel) and hose mounted to the exterior. By eliminating the access panel, and eliminating the 2 holes for the hose to enter on one side and exit on the other side, you get more rigidty and less flex. There is no doubt in my mind that flex is causing the stress cracks.

Very similar to the Montana design, Case and New Holland both have the solid cross brace, but use pipe instead of hose. No doubt the Kioti looks neater with the hoses running inside, but the access panel cutout is the weakpoint and allowing flex. By the way in the attached photo you will see a second, lower mounted, cross brace, that is the loader stand that is folded up, it doesn't add too much rigidity to the loader. The Case and New Holland curved arms loaders also have a very similar folding loader stand; I would not suggest they increase rigidity much either.

Bob_Skurka · May 22, 2006

I think the only way to fix this right is the same way that one dealer did with the ugly angle iron. 

I think a fairly simple fix would involve a slight re-design. Instead of running the hoses through the inside of a thin-wall cross brace, it strikes me that the hoses could be run along the surface of a heavier wall cross brace. So if it was me, I'd cut the cross brace out, install a thicker wall version of one that did not have the access panel, and plumb hydraulic pipe across there, or a less expensive answer would be to run hose across the exterior, but still do the repair by inserting a thicker wall brace in place of the current one.

Attached is a photo of a Montana tractor's loader. It is also a curved arm loader, it has the solid cross brace (no access panel) and hose mounted to the exterior. By eliminating the access panel, and eliminating the 2 holes for the hose to enter on one side and exit on the other side, you get more rigidty and less flex. There is no doubt in my mind that flex is causing the stress cracks.

Very similar to the Montana design, Case and New Holland both have the solid cross brace, but use pipe instead of hose. No doubt the Kioti looks neater with the hoses running inside, but the access panel cutout is the weakpoint and allowing flex. By the way in the attached photo you will see a second, lower mounted, cross brace, that is the loader stand that is folded up, it doesn't add too much rigidity to the loader. The Case and New Holland curved arms loaders also have a very similar folding loader stand; I would not suggest they increase rigidity much either.

KiotiJohn · May 22, 2006

( Instead of running the hoses through the inside of a thin-wall cross brace, it strikes me that the hoses could be run along the surface of a heavier wall cross brace. )
I like the "idea" of having the hoses run inside as this helps to protect them during some of the work many of us do, but obviously, it isn't working. Even with metalized lines, some of the timber work I do could get a hold of them, but there wouldn't be the likelihood of stress cracks that we have now.

I wonder if hardfacing the openings would have prevented these cracks from happening. Not being a metallurgist

John

KiotiJohn · May 22, 2006

( Instead of running the hoses through the inside of a thin-wall cross brace, it strikes me that the hoses could be run along the surface of a heavier wall cross brace. )
I like the "idea" of having the hoses run inside as this helps to protect them during some of the work many of us do, but obviously, it isn't working. Even with metalized lines, some of the timber work I do could get a hold of them, but there wouldn't be the likelihood of stress cracks that we have now.

I wonder if hardfacing the openings would have prevented these cracks from happening. Not being a metallurgist

John

Bob_Skurka · May 22, 2006

I wonder if hardfacing the openings would have prevented these cracks from happening. Not being a metallurgist

John

I dunno. My understanding is the harder the metal is, the more prone to cracking it is; while softer is more prone to flexing, but I'm no expert. But isn't RobS a metallurgist? He might be the one to ask.

As for running the hoses inside versus outside, I guess I don't see it as the issue you do. Virtually every other brand of loader (both curved and dog leg) on the market runs hoses or pipe across that brace and it is a rare thing indeed to hear of a problem.

Bob_Skurka · May 22, 2006

I wonder if hardfacing the openings would have prevented these cracks from happening. Not being a metallurgist

John

I dunno. My understanding is the harder the metal is, the more prone to cracking it is; while softer is more prone to flexing, but I'm no expert. But isn't RobS a metallurgist? He might be the one to ask.

As for running the hoses inside versus outside, I guess I don't see it as the issue you do. Virtually every other brand of loader (both curved and dog leg) on the market runs hoses or pipe across that brace and it is a rare thing indeed to hear of a problem.