My letter to Kioti, loader rerepair, long

[IslandTractor]

I still think this "tempest in a teapot" could have been entirely avoided if Kioti joined the 21st century and monitored this site more appropriately. Highbeams photos were on line over two MONTHS ago.

TBN should be seen by manufacturers as a business resource and treated as such. I presume someone at Kioti monitors various publications for forecasts on the price of steel or interest rates or shipping costs. This site provides them with a different type of data but still critical information to their business. There is no excuse to ignore it. Obviously there is a lot of cr*p you'd have to sift through to find the important discussions but an experienced person would not have to spend "hours a day" doing so.

And, by the way, if Kioti has already had sufficient experience with this problem to be able to tell John, within 48hrs of receiving Highbeam's letter, that they have already made a decision to redesign the loader and have plans to do so, then that makes pretty clear that this is not the first they have heard of the problem. So, where is the service bulletin outlining in adequate detail the appropriate repair for existing, non butchered loaders? I'd like to know that exists so my dealer is educated on the matter before I present him with the problem on my loader.

 

[IslandTractor]

I still think this "tempest in a teapot" could have been entirely avoided if Kioti joined the 21st century and monitored this site more appropriately. Highbeams photos were on line over two MONTHS ago.

TBN should be seen by manufacturers as a business resource and treated as such. I presume someone at Kioti monitors various publications for forecasts on the price of steel or interest rates or shipping costs. This site provides them with a different type of data but still critical information to their business. There is no excuse to ignore it. Obviously there is a lot of cr*p you'd have to sift through to find the important discussions but an experienced person would not have to spend "hours a day" doing so.

And, by the way, if Kioti has already had sufficient experience with this problem to be able to tell John, within 48hrs of receiving Highbeam's letter, that they have already made a decision to redesign the loader and have plans to do so, then that makes pretty clear that this is not the first they have heard of the problem. So, where is the service bulletin outlining in adequate detail the appropriate repair for existing, non butchered loaders? I'd like to know that exists so my dealer is educated on the matter before I present him with the problem on my loader.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( And, by the way, if Kioti has already had sufficient experience with this problem to be able to tell John, within 48hrs of receiving Highbeam's letter, that they have already made a decision to redesign the loader and have plans to do so, then that makes pretty clear that this is not the first they have heard of the problem. So, where is the service bulletin outlining in adequate detail the appropriate repair for existing, non butchered loaders? I'd like to know that exists so my dealer is educated on the matter before I present him with the problem on my loader. )</font>
You're misrepresenting what I said! I didn't say they had made the decision to modify it, this is what I said:
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The loaders will in all likelihood be redesigned, probably with a solid crossbeam and hydraulic lines on the outside as all the non- KL120 and KL130 loaders are designed. )</font>
This was just in the course of discussing the possibilties. I also said that no definite fix for the other loaders has been decided upon.

Is it too much to ask that my posts be read correctly? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
John

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( And, by the way, if Kioti has already had sufficient experience with this problem to be able to tell John, within 48hrs of receiving Highbeam's letter, that they have already made a decision to redesign the loader and have plans to do so, then that makes pretty clear that this is not the first they have heard of the problem. So, where is the service bulletin outlining in adequate detail the appropriate repair for existing, non butchered loaders? I'd like to know that exists so my dealer is educated on the matter before I present him with the problem on my loader. )</font>
You're misrepresenting what I said! I didn't say they had made the decision to modify it, this is what I said:
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The loaders will in all likelihood be redesigned, probably with a solid crossbeam and hydraulic lines on the outside as all the non- KL120 and KL130 loaders are designed. )</font>
This was just in the course of discussing the possibilties. I also said that no definite fix for the other loaders has been decided upon.

Is it too much to ask that my posts be read correctly? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
John

 

[IslandTractor]

Mea Culpa /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. I did misrepresent what you said. Slightly.

However, I am still convinced this problem is not news to them and that they are foolish for not following TBN discussions on service issues.

AND WHERE IS THE SERVICE BULLETIN???

Dear Mr. Korporate Kioti, (no not you John), are you listening? You have an opportunity to squelch this tempest but you need to communicate clearly and promptly what the service plan will be in order to maintain your customer's confidence. Remember your business school case studies on dealing with the public on quality issues? Remember how J&J was lauded for immediately announcing they were pulling all the Tylenol from shelves so public confidence in their product would be saved after some nutcase poisoned a few bottles. Prompt communication with your customers is especially important when the public learns through the media (in this case TBN) about a potential problem. Highbeam's experience teaches us that some of our dealers may not all be up to snuff on how to do these repairs. Boost our confidence by letting us know what you recommend as the appropriate repair. I for one don't want a new loader, I just want to be confident someone with an engineering degree and knowledge of the product is making decisions on how to fix my loader and that an experienced welder will fix it.

Signed,

A still loyal customer

 

[IslandTractor]

Mea Culpa /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. I did misrepresent what you said. Slightly.

However, I am still convinced this problem is not news to them and that they are foolish for not following TBN discussions on service issues.

AND WHERE IS THE SERVICE BULLETIN???

Dear Mr. Korporate Kioti, (no not you John), are you listening? You have an opportunity to squelch this tempest but you need to communicate clearly and promptly what the service plan will be in order to maintain your customer's confidence. Remember your business school case studies on dealing with the public on quality issues? Remember how J&J was lauded for immediately announcing they were pulling all the Tylenol from shelves so public confidence in their product would be saved after some nutcase poisoned a few bottles. Prompt communication with your customers is especially important when the public learns through the media (in this case TBN) about a potential problem. Highbeam's experience teaches us that some of our dealers may not all be up to snuff on how to do these repairs. Boost our confidence by letting us know what you recommend as the appropriate repair. I for one don't want a new loader, I just want to be confident someone with an engineering degree and knowledge of the product is making decisions on how to fix my loader and that an experienced welder will fix it.

Signed,

A still loyal customer

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( AND WHERE IS THE SERVICE BULLETIN??? )</font>
The service bulletin will not come until they can tell the dealers what to do to fix them. I, for one, am hoping that they take sufficient time so that they come up with a great fix, and not hurry into it.

Contrary to what you believe, sitting in an office going through the Kioti forum reading the posts takes a lot of time. I've been to the office, and I've seen those men and women working their butts off keeping up with everything they have to do. I can easily see what it would not be advantageous for them to sit and go through all the bull that often shows up in these forums. I don't think it's realistic in the least, and I'm not even sure that I would want to feel as though they're watching every post.

I like the forum being here for us to gripe about this or that, and to praise our tractors for being able to accomplish so much, or whatever we decide to post. Once coroporations start getting too much into our minds, they learn how to manipulate us better. My opinion.

Once again, if you had read the posts well, you would see that it's obvious they knew about the problem without reading TBN. The dealer had told them about it. The breakdown in communications between all parties involved lead to more time passing than was necessary, but Joe now understands it, and he's the one that counts as regards his situation.

There are so many things that go on in situations such as these that we're not always privy to. Understanding and patience, and also pushing at the proper times can go a long way to making things work better.

I know one thing, I spend a lot of time just reading the general buying/pricing forum, the attachments, and the Kioti forums. I would hate having the job where I would have to sit and read our posts all day unless I was just really into it. As a job, I think it would suck though.
John

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( AND WHERE IS THE SERVICE BULLETIN??? )</font>
The service bulletin will not come until they can tell the dealers what to do to fix them. I, for one, am hoping that they take sufficient time so that they come up with a great fix, and not hurry into it.

Contrary to what you believe, sitting in an office going through the Kioti forum reading the posts takes a lot of time. I've been to the office, and I've seen those men and women working their butts off keeping up with everything they have to do. I can easily see what it would not be advantageous for them to sit and go through all the bull that often shows up in these forums. I don't think it's realistic in the least, and I'm not even sure that I would want to feel as though they're watching every post.

I like the forum being here for us to gripe about this or that, and to praise our tractors for being able to accomplish so much, or whatever we decide to post. Once coroporations start getting too much into our minds, they learn how to manipulate us better. My opinion.

Once again, if you had read the posts well, you would see that it's obvious they knew about the problem without reading TBN. The dealer had told them about it. The breakdown in communications between all parties involved lead to more time passing than was necessary, but Joe now understands it, and he's the one that counts as regards his situation.

There are so many things that go on in situations such as these that we're not always privy to. Understanding and patience, and also pushing at the proper times can go a long way to making things work better.

I know one thing, I spend a lot of time just reading the general buying/pricing forum, the attachments, and the Kioti forums. I would hate having the job where I would have to sit and read our posts all day unless I was just really into it. As a job, I think it would suck though.
John

 

[VictorW]

Yeah, that looks like the same as Highbeams before the welding pros got a hold of it. From the pictures, yours looks good so far. I still haven't taken a look at mine or maybe I'm just making excuses so I don't find the cracks. With the cover on, I haven't seen any cracks.

If you think of it, those extra plates welded inside of the main tube are a bad design especially or actually more importantly when they end at the open hole. Any twisting of the tube would not be even and the extra plate inside will concentrate the force where the thin tube meets the thicker re-enforced area being that the center area is the weakest. The ends of the tube are a full box design and much stronger than the middle with the open hole. Also, the ends are welded to the arms. If that inside plate would run the full length of the open hole on both sides and not just the ends, then the cracks probably wouldn't appear. Just like someone mentioned radiused corners verses sharp right angle corners. You have the same effect here. A concentrated stress point.

Just my opinion using my six years of payments to a university for mechanical engineering.

 

[VictorW]

Yeah, that looks like the same as Highbeams before the welding pros got a hold of it. From the pictures, yours looks good so far. I still haven't taken a look at mine or maybe I'm just making excuses so I don't find the cracks. With the cover on, I haven't seen any cracks.

If you think of it, those extra plates welded inside of the main tube are a bad design especially or actually more importantly when they end at the open hole. Any twisting of the tube would not be even and the extra plate inside will concentrate the force where the thin tube meets the thicker re-enforced area being that the center area is the weakest. The ends of the tube are a full box design and much stronger than the middle with the open hole. Also, the ends are welded to the arms. If that inside plate would run the full length of the open hole on both sides and not just the ends, then the cracks probably wouldn't appear. Just like someone mentioned radiused corners verses sharp right angle corners. You have the same effect here. A concentrated stress point.

Just my opinion using my six years of payments to a university for mechanical engineering.