My letter to Kioti, loader rerepair, long

TractorLegend · Jun 11, 2006

After seeing all that has transpired I think most people would expect a new (and improved) loader frame is the best fix.
Crappy paint, crappy welding...
I wouldn't be happy with one or both.

TractorLegend · Jun 11, 2006

After seeing all that has transpired I think most people would expect a new (and improved) loader frame is the best fix.
Crappy paint, crappy welding...
I wouldn't be happy with one or both.

IslandTractor · Jun 11, 2006

He gave me a can of spray paint with instructions to have the welding shop paint the repair when they were finished.

I hope that was not corporate Kioti approved. While this repair certainly is an improvement on the Highbeam hatchet job, it is only a step in the right direction. There seems to be no corporate guidance involved in this repair either. Would Kioti really send off a couple of cans of paint to a welding shop? Anyone heard of primer? Masking? And, is a chunk of angle iron the so called "prototype" repair kit we've heard about?

We know that Kioti has finally made a public announcement regarding this loader cracking issue and has a prototype repair program underway. I'm afraid that MOtractorman's repair is a consequence of the delay in announcing such a program by Kioti as it appears his dealer has made independent arrangements with questionable engineering input and no quality control or standards on the painting.

Kioti ought to make clear to dealers that they are now finally dealing with this issue at the corporate level and that dealers should stop their local farm quality repairs until the official "repair kits" are distributed and a formal service bulletin is issued.

Once again, Kioti needs to respond to this quickly before more loaders are botched up by local welding shops.

IslandTractor · Jun 11, 2006

He gave me a can of spray paint with instructions to have the welding shop paint the repair when they were finished.

I hope that was not corporate Kioti approved. While this repair certainly is an improvement on the Highbeam hatchet job, it is only a step in the right direction. There seems to be no corporate guidance involved in this repair either. Would Kioti really send off a couple of cans of paint to a welding shop? Anyone heard of primer? Masking? And, is a chunk of angle iron the so called "prototype" repair kit we've heard about?

We know that Kioti has finally made a public announcement regarding this loader cracking issue and has a prototype repair program underway. I'm afraid that MOtractorman's repair is a consequence of the delay in announcing such a program by Kioti as it appears his dealer has made independent arrangements with questionable engineering input and no quality control or standards on the painting.

Kioti ought to make clear to dealers that they are now finally dealing with this issue at the corporate level and that dealers should stop their local farm quality repairs until the official "repair kits" are distributed and a formal service bulletin is issued.

Once again, Kioti needs to respond to this quickly before more loaders are botched up by local welding shops.

Bob_Skurka · Jun 11, 2006

( I am submitting the pictures to Kioti to see their response about this fix. )

DaveNay responded ( Who did the painting with all that overspray? A roll of masking tape and yesterdays newspaper would have prevented that. ) 

I'm only a hobbiest welder, but why didn't they remove the hydraulic hoses before doing the welding and the painting? The same thing happened on Highbeams (but you can see in Joe's photos were the welder burnt Joe's hose protector, in these photo you can see the welder stopped short) The hoses have quick connects in the center access panel, they should be easy enough to unhook and slide out of there prior to doing the welding & painting. It is obvious that they did not weld the full perimeter line because they had to stay away from the hoses. Removing the hoses would have allowed a full perimeter line weld, which in turn would have eliminated any chance of water getting between the new pieces of metal and the original loader. Does anyone else see that as a water trap that will rust out?

If the welding shop was simply asked to weld a piece of angle iron onto the crossbrace then it is apparently not an engineered solution? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Island Tractor wrote: Kioti ought to make clear to dealers that they are now finally dealing with this issue at the corporate level and that dealers should stop their local farm quality repairs until the official "repair kits" are distributed and a formal service bulletin is issued. 
Ed, just to set the timeline into perspective, MoTractorman took his tractor for repair long before Kioti announced anything about an engineered fix. His repair probably preceeds any formal corporate action from Kioti by at least a week.

Bob_Skurka · Jun 11, 2006

( I am submitting the pictures to Kioti to see their response about this fix. )

DaveNay responded ( Who did the painting with all that overspray? A roll of masking tape and yesterdays newspaper would have prevented that. ) 

I'm only a hobbiest welder, but why didn't they remove the hydraulic hoses before doing the welding and the painting? The same thing happened on Highbeams (but you can see in Joe's photos were the welder burnt Joe's hose protector, in these photo you can see the welder stopped short) The hoses have quick connects in the center access panel, they should be easy enough to unhook and slide out of there prior to doing the welding & painting. It is obvious that they did not weld the full perimeter line because they had to stay away from the hoses. Removing the hoses would have allowed a full perimeter line weld, which in turn would have eliminated any chance of water getting between the new pieces of metal and the original loader. Does anyone else see that as a water trap that will rust out?

If the welding shop was simply asked to weld a piece of angle iron onto the crossbrace then it is apparently not an engineered solution? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Island Tractor wrote: Kioti ought to make clear to dealers that they are now finally dealing with this issue at the corporate level and that dealers should stop their local farm quality repairs until the official "repair kits" are distributed and a formal service bulletin is issued. 
Ed, just to set the timeline into perspective, MoTractorman took his tractor for repair long before Kioti announced anything about an engineered fix. His repair probably preceeds any formal corporate action from Kioti by at least a week.

Donnyj · Jun 11, 2006

I'm no engineer or welder, but why not just take the hoses out of the tube, put a cover over the hoses and reinforce the cross tube? I agree, why try to work around those hoses without removing them? The hoses attached to the backside of the cross tube and covered with a shield would eliminate the whole problem. Just my opinion though.... I know the hoses hidden look neater. We have to remember that it is a piece of equipment, not a show piece. Years and years of loader work will sooner or later cause some damage such as small cracks or scratches or even bent parts. Some loader work is of course easier than others. I personally think loader work, especially with a tooth bar, is some of the hardest work you can do with a loader. The durability and function of a loader, to me anyway, is much more important than looks. Such as hiding the hoses. In theory a great idea, but as we have seen it has caused unnecessary problems. Just my 2 cents worth......

Donnyj · Jun 11, 2006

I'm no engineer or welder, but why not just take the hoses out of the tube, put a cover over the hoses and reinforce the cross tube? I agree, why try to work around those hoses without removing them? The hoses attached to the backside of the cross tube and covered with a shield would eliminate the whole problem. Just my opinion though.... I know the hoses hidden look neater. We have to remember that it is a piece of equipment, not a show piece. Years and years of loader work will sooner or later cause some damage such as small cracks or scratches or even bent parts. Some loader work is of course easier than others. I personally think loader work, especially with a tooth bar, is some of the hardest work you can do with a loader. The durability and function of a loader, to me anyway, is much more important than looks. Such as hiding the hoses. In theory a great idea, but as we have seen it has caused unnecessary problems. Just my 2 cents worth......

chelydra · Jun 11, 2006

( ( ... He is only the owner of a CK20...)[/blue] 
ONLY the owner of a CK20? Is there some kind of prejudice here?!
-Chelydra (only the generally happy owner of a CK20) 

Chelydra, I believe you misunderstood the reference that Nixon was making. ... )

Thanks, Bob - I was just having a little fun with the "big tractor" folks here. I bought my CK20 because it was the very smallest CUT that could hoist half a ton. I have a 1.5-car garage, and this fits in the half-space. Occasionally could use more power or weight, but actually the relief valve is almost always the lift- or dig-limiting factor, even with the engine at a relatively quiet 2200-2500 RPM. (I only use PTO power to pull out of holes.)

My "generally happy" comment is the on-topic part. I had a very inconvenient hydraulic leak that took a long time to resolve because the dealer hadn't known about the problem, which was familiar to Kioti but apparently not well publicized around the network. In the course of repairing that, they messed up the BH a bit by hauling it away in the wrong trailer, with the wrong pin holding the boom up (instead of leaving the bucket down). And there are funny noises coming from under the BH. And the dealer, while fixing the original seal blow-out, apparently found a defective HST control bushing that required splitting the tractor in half to reach, or so I was told. I'm glad they found and fixed it, but I shudder to think of what else might break.

Actually, I'm delighted with the TLB. It's pretty much exactly what I want and need, and a delight every time I get out on it. I'm just very nervous about other hidden issues, dealer capability, and long-term value in case I ever want to trade up or down. (And annoyed that I bought mine a month before the new seat came out - those older belt mounting are a PITA, especially if you sit on the buckles.)

-Chelydra

chelydra · Jun 11, 2006

( ( ... He is only the owner of a CK20...)[/blue] 
ONLY the owner of a CK20? Is there some kind of prejudice here?!
-Chelydra (only the generally happy owner of a CK20) 

Chelydra, I believe you misunderstood the reference that Nixon was making. ... )

Thanks, Bob - I was just having a little fun with the "big tractor" folks here. I bought my CK20 because it was the very smallest CUT that could hoist half a ton. I have a 1.5-car garage, and this fits in the half-space. Occasionally could use more power or weight, but actually the relief valve is almost always the lift- or dig-limiting factor, even with the engine at a relatively quiet 2200-2500 RPM. (I only use PTO power to pull out of holes.)

My "generally happy" comment is the on-topic part. I had a very inconvenient hydraulic leak that took a long time to resolve because the dealer hadn't known about the problem, which was familiar to Kioti but apparently not well publicized around the network. In the course of repairing that, they messed up the BH a bit by hauling it away in the wrong trailer, with the wrong pin holding the boom up (instead of leaving the bucket down). And there are funny noises coming from under the BH. And the dealer, while fixing the original seal blow-out, apparently found a defective HST control bushing that required splitting the tractor in half to reach, or so I was told. I'm glad they found and fixed it, but I shudder to think of what else might break.

Actually, I'm delighted with the TLB. It's pretty much exactly what I want and need, and a delight every time I get out on it. I'm just very nervous about other hidden issues, dealer capability, and long-term value in case I ever want to trade up or down. (And annoyed that I bought mine a month before the new seat came out - those older belt mounting are a PITA, especially if you sit on the buckles.)

-Chelydra