MY local fire department has STUPID policies.....

[xzcVAbc5]

Subscribed to this thread so I can read through it when I have more time this weekend. I learned a little in the early part of the thread, but now it's entertainment.

 

[Johnny g]

JD may not know how to deal with people in authority, but he sure knows how to start a lively thread.

 

[super55]

According to Michigan law a brush fire does not need a permit if there is a blanket of snow on the ground. However in your situation your local ordnance supersede the state law. So you don't need a permit from the MI DNR but you need authorization from the local FD chief. As for contacting the fire chief or appointee most likely all this will require on your part is getting his phone number and giving him a call telling him of your address and approximate time of burn. You are in Ag land farmers burn brush all the time I doubt he goes and inspects every one beside your brush pile is not that large and appears to pose no immediate threat to any structures from what I can see.

Ask the Twp clerk or see if your twp has a website find the fire chiefs number and give him a call. While at it ask for the non-emergency number for the 911 dispatch and give them your address and time of burn. Also give the chief and the dispatch your phone number so they can call you in case of a 911 call. Do gooders all the time see smoke driving by in their cars and feel the need to dial 911. If its a report of smoke and the FD or dispatch have no idea that you're burning than the FD is responding. I wouldn't be surprised if all you need is verbal authorization and nothing more.



Make a few phone calls and let the people that need to know you are burning and attend the fire the whole time. You can have a completely under control fire with zero risk and if it's unattended and the FD shows up you're getting fined and they'll put the fire out.

 

[dave1949]

Had he gone to the township hall and:
Said "I need a burn permit, please".
Asked "When will the inspector come out?"
Asked "Once issued the permit, how long before it expires."
Said "Thanks."

That's two simple questions, not 20.

How do we know that isn't essentially what happened?

That question in my town would have brought stumped silence if posed to a clerk in the town office (open 1pm-6pm Tues & Thurs). The clerk has no authority to schedule someone's time in the fire department. And my guess is that in most small towns served by a VFD that would be the case. That's the point, there are rules and a procedure but no organizational process to carry them out.

If you look at it as a business transaction: Bill is a paying customer (taxes) who is placing an order for a product (permit).

 

[dusty3030]

According to Michigan law a brush fire does not need a permit if there is a blanket of snow on the ground. However in your situation your local ordnance supersede the state law. So you don't need a permit from the MI DNR but you need authorization from the local FD chief. As for contacting the fire chief or appointee most likely all this will require on your part is getting his phone number and giving him a call telling him of your address and approximate time of burn. You are in Ag land farmers burn brush all the time I doubt he goes and inspects every one beside your brush pile is not that large and appears to pose no immediate threat to any structures from what I can see.

Ask the Twp clerk or see if your twp has a website find the fire chiefs number and give him a call. While at it ask for the non-emergency number for the 911 dispatch and give them your address and time of burn. Also give the chief and the dispatch your phone number so they can call you in case of a 911 call. Do gooders all the time see smoke driving by in their cars and feel the need to dial 911. If its a report of smoke and the FD or dispatch have no idea that you're burning than the FD is responding. I wouldn't be surprised if all you need is verbal authorization and nothing more.



Make a few phone calls and let the people that need to know you are burning and attend the fire the whole time. You can have a completely under control fire with zero risk and if it's unattended and the FD shows up you're getting fined and they'll put the fire out.

Hmm, common sense. You sir take the road less traveled on the interweb.

 

[dave1949]

I think we should move on to Bill's carbon footprint and his impact on global warming. There's plenty of winter left. :laughing:

 

[Dr_Zinj]

You said it requires approval, not that it requires inspection.

Just list the date of the burn on the permit. If they don't get back to you with a denial, burn it. The onus is on them.

 

[dragoneggs]

Wow. Lively discussion: Has anybody suggested this: Call the dispatch before you set it off. Tell them your going to burn and ask them give you a call if they get any false alarm call ins. That way when the do-gooder noisy neighbors call them they won't dispatch the VFD.

I have called the Fire Department giving them a heads up on the day I was burning where I used to live because I knew my neighbor was going to squawk when they saw or smelled smoke. Worked well.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

The regs out here are all published on the web for both the state fire people and the air resources board. There's even a web site to see if the ARB says it's OK to burn. There's no excuse for not knowing the rules and following them. The time to find and understand the regs is before the first stick is put on the pile, not after building a monster.

That said, though, I once had to educate the local pro firemen about what's acceptable for Fire Hazard Reduction Burning, an allowable fire classification out here that is much more liberal than the rules for residential debris burning. My thoughtful neighbor called the fire department out one night at about 10PM when they noticed a large bed of coals still going well after dark. It was winter, I'd scraped a 10' wide ring down to bare dirt around the pile, it had been raining on and off for several weeks so everything was soaked and green. I lit it earlier that afternoon so the main burn happened before dark, pretty exciting with a Grayhound bus sized pile of mostly oak. I wasn't mad at the firefighters, but did show them a print out of the regs, and spoke to their captain when they used my phone to call in. I remember overhearing "I think it'd take four or five engines to put it out" and rolling my eyes.:shocked: Before the call we took a flashlight tour of the burnt pile past several others that were set to go. They were telling me I'd have to break the piles down (there were over 40 of them, all pushed up with a 'dozer). After the call they settled down and their concerns vanished. The firemen had to enter through the neighbor's property because somehow the fire station had lost the combo to my gate, so I asked them to pay my kindest regards to the neighbors on the way out, and to please tell them to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS! I burned thirty something piles that winter with no further problems.

That said, every time I lit one of them off my heart would race as the flames climbed past the point where it would be possible to put out with my garden hose and tractor. But by paying attention to the weather, picking a day with little to no wind and plenty of moisture, using any wind and a hose to ****** the burn by lighting it on the uphill/upwind side and keeping it wet, and keeping an eye on all sides of the burn, only the piles were torched. One of the neighbors has an old pumper truck that we used on some steep ground when the piles were close to trees we didn't want singed. The point I'm trying to make is that it's possible to burn big piles safely, but you gotta do it by the rules and use a very healthy dose of common sense.

 

[jhasafety1]

I know you all have opinions on what the guy should do and are quick to have him violate the permit requirments. I bet your wishing you can be there to watch him get a ticket. What surprises me is you all act as if this rule is in place just to harass someone. The rule is in place because the lowest common denominator in the human race has done something stupid and burned something down, burned hundreds of acres, or created some much smoke that it cause an accident. We live in a crazy world made up of millions of the lowest common denominator, I wonder if the one in three rule works here. Look to the left and look to the right, if both of those guys look like they know how to burn a brush pile, you may be the lowest common denominator.