Nails in loaded R4's

[SCRich]

I am kind of new to this, only 80 hours on my tractor. I keep on getting crud in my tires. A couple of months ago my tires got some small slices in them, think it was some rock I was driving on that had been broken up by the site prep work. Then I had a branch the size of a cigar go sideways into a tread, no big deal I guess, that was about 8 months ago and just recently the branch disappeared and I can see a small hole.

I was cleaning the tractor a bit today and found 2 nails in the body of the tire not the tread, one in EACH tire!! These are loaded and I have never plugged a tractor tire let alone a loaded one. Don't have a way to get the tire to the store for plugging since the pick up is broke and I am guessing loaded R4's on a L3400 are probably really heavy.

Can I plug one of these with a regular auto parts store kit? How about the loaded part? How would I go about doing it, every time I have plugged I have usually aired out the tire at least 75%.

 

[dangerdoc]

I am kind of new to this, only 80 hours on my tractor. I keep on getting crud in my tires. A couple of months ago my tires got some small slices in them, think it was some rock I was driving on that had been broken up by the site prep work. Then I had a branch the size of a cigar go sideways into a tread, no big deal I guess, that was about 8 months ago and just recently the branch disappeared and I can see a small hole.

I was cleaning the tractor a bit today and found 2 nails in the body of the tire not the tread, one in EACH tire!! These are loaded and I have never plugged a tractor tire let alone a loaded one. Don't have a way to get the tire to the store for plugging since the pick up is broke and I am guessing loaded R4's on a L3400 are probably really heavy.

Can I plug one of these with a regular auto parts store kit? How about the loaded part? How would I go about doing it, every time I have plugged I have usually aired out the tire at least 75%.

I would recommend that you get someone out with the equipement to pump out the CaCl and properly repair the tire. Two big problems a loaded tire is extremely heavy and dangerous to handle, and a small leak can ruin your rims in short order.

A few years ago when I had loaded tires, I noticed a low tire, when they tried to break the bead, the rim just fell apart. I am currently running without ballast and have all tires slimed.

 

[alchemysa]

The sticky black plugs that look like fat pipe cleaners have always worked well on all but the worst holes on my car, 4x4, ride on mower and tractor. You have to let any air out prior to installing those plugs. I also have the tractor and mower tyres slimed which I recommend. Large holes in a tubeless tyre may need some extra help such as a patch glued on the inside. I don't have loaded tyres so i cant comment much about those. I guess you'd obviously move the hole to the top before trying to plug the tyre.

One important thing I discovered while plugging tubeless front tyres while they are still on the rim is to NOT to let the weight of the tractor rest on the flat tyre. This can break the bead of the tyre and make it VERY hard to re-inflate unless you have a pretty big compressor. So whenever you have a tyre thats flat, or going flat, support the front of the tractor with a jack, a block, or the FEL. The same goes for the rears I suppose but the fronts seem especially prone to losing their bead seal.

 

[KeithInSpace]

when they tried to break the bead, the rim just fell apart.

Huh? I've seen a lot of threads about loaded tires, and I have my own opinions in the matter (lets just summarize those by stating that I run cast iron wheel weights).

But I don't recall seeing anyone state that their rim deteriated to nothingness as a result of filling the tire. That isn't too cool, is it? I know there are benefits, especially in larger tractors where this adds several hundred lbs of ballast, but the idea of your whole wheel falling apart as a result sounds just a little unsettling. And perhaps dangerous in the wrong situation.

You have to let any air out prior to installing those plugs.

I've seen these installed with 20# of air rushing out of the hole. On a Z06 Corvette Gooodyear Eagle F1 Supercar performance tire. Not that it would have been my personal choice, but he was replacing the tires soon anyway.

Watching my Dad do this repair procedure for years, I thought you HAD to do it to an inflated tire!!! Kidding. But I think turning the hole to the top would be sufficient and if there is no more air (just juice), you'll need to add some air to get the area nice and dry before plugging.

And, of course, I've never seen one of those plugs administered to a sidewall. Never heard good things about sidewall punctures.

 

[alchemysa]

And, of course, I've never seen one of those plugs administered to a sidewall. Never heard good things about sidewall punctures.

I've got two in the sidewalls of my suzuki sierra, running F100 rims and tyres. No problem. - but they were nice clean 'wire' punctures (not tears) and I only have about 20 psi in them. It mainly runs on the beach, not on the highway, but they haven't leaked a bit in about 2 years. I'd certainly try them in a tractor tyre.

And yeah you could do it without letting the air out - if you want to gamble with your eyesight.

 

[Farmerford]

Rich:

I regularly patch water filled R-4 rears on a Kubota B2400 and Grand L 4330 with a plug kit. I use a fairly high quality plug, but I suspect the auto store ones will do okay. Park the tractor with the hole at the top, pump the tire up to full rated pressure so it will not leak down all the way while you work, get the plug ready, pull out the nail, and insert the plug. With practice (and it sounds like you will have plenty) you can pop out the nail and stick in the plug in a few seconds.

I got so many punctures in the front tires that I treated them with Bullet-Proof tire seal from Gempler's. It works almost as good as the ads say.

 

[Charlesaf3]

yep, I'm definitely getting my new tractors tires foamed as well. This seals it. So to speak.

keith - a lot of people used to (and may still) use salt + water or CACL + water to load tires as it doesn't freeze. It does however rot out the rims. People have thus moved to various alcohol solutions which don't rot the rims. (cheapy being windshield wiper fluid)

 

[dangerdoc]

Huh? I've seen a lot of threads about loaded tires, and I have my own opinions in the matter (lets just summarize those by stating that I run cast iron wheel weights).

But I don't recall seeing anyone state that their rim deteriated to nothingness as a result of filling the tire. That isn't too cool, is it? I know there are benefits, especially in larger tractors where this adds several hundred lbs of ballast, but the idea of your whole wheel falling apart as a result sounds just a little unsettling. And perhaps dangerous in the wrong situation.


.

Loading the tire does not cause the rust. Not knowing you have a small leak will most definately cause a problem, expensive to boot.

 

[KeithInSpace]

Loading the tire does not cause the rust.

I'm not trying to be a pain...I promise I'm not. But are you saying there is the same propensity for rust whether the tire is filled or un-filled? I guess what I'm saying is that if I have a leak in an un-filled tire and in a filled tire. And one will simply cause my tire to go flat while the other will cause that AND the possibility of a heavily corroded rim...well...I'd take that as a mark against loading tires.

As I said, not saying it isn't worth the risk...there aren't other things to fill with...on and on. I know there are 100 arguments on both sides.

All I'm saying is I haven't seen in any of the previous discussions "I went to fix a hole in my tire and the rim just fell apart". I would think that is an important little tid-bit ESPECIALLY to owners of BX machines since there isn't a huge weight advantage to filling vs. wheel weights anyway (there just isn't that much tire volume).

The point is less relevent to L or M owners, or even B owners, since they can put a HUGE amount of weight in filled tires which helps them sigificantly and bolt on weights are less desireable for the same net effect.

 

[slaveToHorses]

There are non-corrosive tire filling solutions. So the worry about the rim rusting away can be avoided by using a modern solution.

However, it is always a bit more difficult to repair a tire that is filled. It is a tradeoff. But most punctures, on tubeless tires, can be repaired with a plug, as some previous posts describe. No big deal. The fill might actually make it easier to find the leak!

 

[Redbug]

I always carry a car/light truck plug kit in my truck toolbox. I have plugged about everything that rolls with it, including my atv, truck, lawn mower, trailer tires. If it's a big hole, I use 2 plugs at once. Haven't put a hole in the tractor tire, yet.

Tire Repair Kits

 

[SCRich]

I always carry a car/light truck plug kit in my truck toolbox. I have plugged about everything that rolls with it, including my atv, truck, lawn mower, trailer tires. If it's a big hole, I use 2 plugs at once. Haven't put a hole in the tractor tire, yet.

Tire Repair Kits

WOW! those kits are expensive does it include an inflatable tire repair tech in there?

I have tried plugging one tire in my life fully inflated and I swear it felt like I was trying to shove a knife in a rock. I am glad that loaded tires does not matter. For now no leaks no problems and I guess I should leave well enough alone. What I should do since thes buggers are so expensive is call someone in to do the repair while I am here and just watch him. I am sure it will happen again and I learn quick. It may be worth the money.

As far as the loading of the tires it was done at the dealer, it is not the old "salt water" and if I were to have any trouble I'd be going right back to them.

 

[alchemysa]

WOW! those kits are expensive does it include an inflatable tire repair tech in there? .

Discount auto parts shops have much cheaper kits. About $10 for a kit including the cleaner and insertion tools and about five 4" plugs.
Replacement plugs are about $5 for a pack of 5. So about $1 a puncture is good value in my book.

 

[SCRich]

Yes, that is a bit more reasonable and what I purchased long ago. I belive in purchasing quality but $70 or so for a kit I thought was a bit insane. For that price I can probably have someone come, remove the tire and liquid, plug it AND patch it and put it all back together!

 

[Redbug]

I agree that is too high of a price Rich. I know I did not pay that much several years ago when I bought my kits. From what I have read, Napa is also selling the kits much cheaper without the plastic case. The kit I use is the one for autos and light trucks. The plugs work well in whatever type of tire I patch, lasting the life of the tire.

It's good to have a kit (of some sort) available when out in the woods, etc. You notice a nail in the tire, pull out the kit, remove the nail, plug it, add air from cheapee air inflator and get back to whatever you were doing, (looking for more nails/thorns to drive over).

 

[SCRich]

Thorns I don't have a problem with but these builders were real idiots and I really don't do much work real close to the house were I would expect the nails.

I have used slime in the ATV tires and will be doing my ZTR tires this weekend. I kind of wish I did the tractor tires in slime and not loaded them, at the time I was not aware of wheel weights for the L3400. I had just seen them in larger industrial tractors.

 

[Redbug]

Rich,

That's the main reason I did not get my tires loaded, and use a full load of wheel weights and other weight off the back of the tractor for ballast. So far, I have not had to do any plugging on the tractor. I seem to attract tire
punctures, and always give the tires a once around when out doing stuff. It's the places you go, which are usually off the beaten path. I just had to plug a trailer tire yesterday. I was dumping some debris at the landfill and picked up a roofing nail. I don't know how the dumpster trucks keep air in their tires at that place.

 

[Leon Wittner]

I had tubes added to my tires before Calcium Chloride was added. to help protect the rims. Never had a flat yet but if I do I will call the folks that repair tractor tires on site.

 

[SCRich]

Well you live and learn, It's my first tractor so I did not know better. I don't worry about the rusting issue but I think I would have taken slime over the loading if I knew I could get wheel weights. Ther rear ballast would not work for me since I ALWAYS have something on the back.

BUT one of these days I plan to make a ballast just to have around. I got a few 55gal drums, plan to make a "concrete parfait" cement, rocks, cement, rocks some more cement and a cherry on top . Stick a few pins in the side from the dealer and an anchor for the top link and I'll be done.

Thanks to my dealer for that idea, I know he lurks here. I'll be swinging by sometime this week for that service manual addendum BTW.

 

[dangerdoc]

I'm not trying to be a pain...I promise I'm not. But are you saying there is the same propensity for rust whether the tire is filled or un-filled? I guess what I'm saying is that if I have a leak in an un-filled tire and in a filled tire. And one will simply cause my tire to go flat while the other will cause that AND the possibility of a heavily corroded rim...well...I'd take that as a mark against loading tires.

As I said, not saying it isn't worth the risk...there aren't other things to fill with...on and on. I know there are 100 arguments on both sides.

All I'm saying is I haven't seen in any of the previous discussions "I went to fix a hole in my tire and the rim just fell apart". I would think that is an important little tid-bit ESPECIALLY to owners of BX machines since there isn't a huge weight advantage to filling vs. wheel weights anyway (there just isn't that much tire volume).

The point is less relevent to L or M owners, or even B owners, since they can put a HUGE amount of weight in filled tires which helps them sigificantly and bolt on weights are less desireable for the same net effect.

I'm not quite connecting with what you are trying to say. Let me clarify my points.

I have had loaded tires in the past. I have had rims ruined by the salt when I had a small leak. If you live in an area with thorns or other tire hazards, I would not load the tire with salt or alternative because it make repairing the tire difficult and prevents the use of tire sealer.