Need a dealer for 4110 Parts !

   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #11  
skipmarcy said:
My tractor is a pretty early production, don't think they had it quite down-pat at the time. All I can do is fix the problems as they arise, can't re-engineer the whole tractor. Got 1252 hours on the clock and it still gets the job done, I can change an axle in 15 minutes if that's all I have to do once or so a year.
From your serial number, I see you've got a 2001 4110. I've got a 2004 4110 with *FAR* fewer operating hours. I'm certainly aware of the front vs. rear differential mismatch issue from reading about it... but not yet from personal experience (Knock on wood!). I've apparently got different size rear tires from the 2001 model... which appears to have been at least part of their intended "fix". I too do not understand how hard front, soft rear tires can do much to change anything. I'm guessing it might be less about changing effective tire circumference and more about encouraging a bit more front tire skid or slippage relative to the rears when in 4-wheel drive mode. I plan to do some tests and take some precision differential measurements once the snow and mud clears from my property.

You can be sure I'll be PM-ing you the first time I lose an axle so I can find out your tricks of the trade! If it takes you 15 minutes, I'm sure I can get one changed in 15 hours or less... once I have the parts in hand, of course! :)

Dougster
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #12  
I hope I can explain this so it's easy to understand. Take a truck for example, if you had a tire that was say 22 inches tall and you run down the road at 55mph and the tachometer reads 2400 rpm. Next, lets take the 22 inch tall tire off and replace it with a 24 inch tall tire. Now we see that going down the road at the same engine rpm, but we are running over the 55 mph.(faster) The rule of thumb is for each inch you lose or raise in tire size, it will take another 200 rpm higher or lower of engine speed, to equal the same ground speed.

If you're tearing up front end parts, I would say it is pulling to much of its share of the load. Remember a taller tire will move you farther then a smaller tire with the same given engine speed. If you aired the back tires up more and lowered the air in the front tires, you would be changeing the ratio front to back, not much, but some. A taller tire in the back will push more. I bet if you guys compare tractor tires from the 2000 models to the newer models, I would wager you find the back tire is a little bigger height wise then the older models.
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #13  
Nightain,
I think you did a fantastic job of explaining that.
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #14  
skipmarcy
What are the tire sizes you are running on the front and the back of your tractor?
Happy Tractoring
Chipperman
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #15  
Nightrain1
You are absolutely correct about the rear tire. The new tire has a longer rolling circumference which means they are backwards about running the front tires hard. If anything the rears should have the pressure high and the fronts on the lower end of the range. I've thought about this many times and being you brought it up I will agree.

Doug,
You have a different front axil assy. than Skip does and I don't believe you will have that problem. I have sold tractors with both axil assy's. and have not had anybody snap an axil.
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #16  
Nightrain1 said:
If you're tearing up front end parts, I would say it is pulling to much of its share of the load. Remember a taller tire will move you farther then a smaller tire with the same given engine speed. If you aired the back tires up more and lowered the air in the front tires, you would be changeing the ratio front to back, not much, but some. A taller tire in the back will push more. I bet if you guys compare tractor tires from the 2000 models to the newer models, I would wager you find the back tire is a little bigger height wise then the older models.
Not agreeing or disagreeing... mainly just playing devil's advocate here :D and trying to learn... but how do you explain the infamous Mahindra recommendation we've all heard that 4110 owners should pump up the front tires to the max allowed and decrease pressure in the rears as much as possible. Isn't this counter to your theory of the fronts over-pulling? And why do you feel that fronts over-pulling might be more destructive than fronts under-pulling? :confused: Wouldn't the detrimental forces be relatively the same... only reversed in direction? :confused:

As I stated above, I don't believe that increasing or reducing inflation pressure in a multi-ply tractor tire... within prudent/allowed limits... changes the effective tire circumference (not height or diameter) and road length per tire revolution more than maybe 1% tops. Unless the rubber is slipping at the ground contact point in one tire or the other... which is entirely possible... I just don't see it making any difference. There is only so much that a tire's tread length can stretch based on varying inflation pressure.

Dougster
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #17  
LAWALLSTRACTOR said:
Nightrain1 - You are absolutely correct about the rear tire. The new tire has a longer rolling circumference which means they are backwards about running the front tires hard. If anything the rears should have the pressure high and the fronts on the lower end of the range. I've thought about this many times and being you brought it up I will agree.
Doug, You have a different front axil assy. than Skip does and I don't believe you will have that problem. I have sold tractors with both axil assy's. and have not had anybody snap an axil.
Hi Galen - I see you posted while I was composing! :) I didn't realize I had a different axle design from the 2001 on my 2004. Based on Skipmarcy's nasty experience, I was getting ready to expect trouble! :eek:

Dougster
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #18  
Skipmarcy,
Do you happen to know the front to rear ratio so that you can check to see how close the tires are matched?

If they are way off, that could be contributing to your problem. Even if others have the same size tires and the size is off, they might not be having a problem because they aren't using their tractors to the same degree you are.
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts ! #19  
Below is the formula that can be used to figure the RPM for tire setups...but the one thing to remember is by adding air you change the foot print of the tire and usually you only change pressure because of the load that the tractor will be working with and not above the tires max rating. My 2815 manual gives examples of tires with different pressure.
Do a search on "broken axles", I did and found some people with other type of tractors were having axle problems and some thought it was because of the way they appeared to be using their FEL with heavy loads. Maybe this might give you another ideal to work with about you problem.

MPH x Axle Ratio x 336
____________________
Tire Diameter

You sound like you really know what your doing in rebuilding you front end and personally if you haven't already I would call Mahindra direct and complain about whats happening, the 4110 seems to be a good tractor with few problems. And your problem seem to be more than just a tire issue and it really would be hard to believe that you could be over working this tractor without other major problems.
 
   / Need a dealer for 4110 Parts !
  • Thread Starter
#20  
To answer a couple of your questions - one & all. My front tires are the Titan 10-ply, 12-16.5 NHS (skid steer tires). The rears are Titan 17.5-24, 8 ply R4. I don't know the actual ratios of the diffs. - the rear would be impossible for me to determine not being able to measure input shaft rotation and I've already reassembled my tractor and the cover tube is over the front driveshaft so I can't check it without taking that bugger back off. I've got work stacked-up I need to do. The test drive this afternoon went well - front drive ready to work, thanks to Galen's quick response time on my parts !!

I don't think the weight of loader work is causing the axle problem, originally my tractor came with a standard 5' bucket and then 2 years ago I bought the QA adapter and the new 6' bucket the 4110's have - increased weight up there considerably but didn't cause any quicker frequency of axle breaks. I'm just wondering if these studs in the ring gear have always had some play in them and the shock of the slack taking up at just the right time is snapping these axles at that hardened spot where the diameter of the axle is turned-down to spline diameter - this is where they break everytime and it's a torsional break (twisted). It's not a break that is maybe cracked at one time then finally breaks at another time, it pops all at one time.

I do use my tractor - I didn't buy a lawn ornament. Quite a few times I've pushed it pretty hard but not what I would call total abuse. I used it commercially for 2 years down in Florida - alot of loader work, boxblade & bushogging but I only broke 2 axles in that 2 year period. I don't tear-up implements or buckets, my loader is fine, no bent cylinders etc., so I don't cal l how I work with it abuse, just good solid work and excepting for the axles the tractor has handled it all just fine - it has amazed me at times what this thing can do for it's size. I cut my homesite here this time last year with it - cut & moved about 1/4 acre down 5' deep and dressed it all up. Used my subsoiler to bust some of the chert rock layers and kept on diggin'. Never broke an axle the whole time. The diff. went when I was covering over my septic field lines last summer, dragging a box of loose dirt. That subsoiler would stop the tractor when it hit a good chunk of rock, of course I was in 2nd gear going very slowly, but never did snap an axle. Then do it hauling a box of dirt.

As far as changing an axle in 15 minutes - pick front wheels up with loader. Remove wheel, pop tie-rod off with pickle fork, remove 6 bolts - a very heavy final drive comes off in your hands. Remove broken axle (broken spline tip in final drive comes out with a magnet easily). Reverse procedure, add maybe a qt. of 90w that you lost. I think that axle is around $42 on mine, newer models may be different. Mahindra replaced the first axle that broke for me, well, they sent me the axle to put in. I talked to people there off & on for the first couple years but no real help, obviously. Nothing that can be done about it now, maybe I'll accidently figure what's happening and solve the problem. If not I'll just have to keep an axle ready. Thanks for everyone's interest and I wouldn't worry too much if you own a later model 4110 - they seem to be doing excellent. If I do ever pin this one down for sure, I'll post it.
 

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