Need advice for land clearing 70+ acres of timbered land

[Vhayne]

Seriously, thanks everyone for your suggestions! You are helping me learn a lot and giving me many ideas as to what I need to do. It's a lot of food for thought!

Questions:

1. If I use an excavator to remove the stumps (most stumps, that I've seen, are between 6-12" in diameter and about 4-8" high) won't that leave behind huge holes, since I'd have to dig around each one to pop the ball out? And whatever I use afterward, tractor, bobcat, or a bushhog attachment, wouldn't that be a problem?

2. When I asked the seller why they did what they did (putting all the brush in the gullys), he said it was to let them rot and build up the "holes". I don't understand this reasoning, as it seems like it would take decades for it to rot to a point where it's all gone.

3. This one is a bit off-topic. When I plan to buy the equipment, I need to have it delivered to the property since I don't have a means to transport it yet. I'll also need some type of fuel storage on the property so I can re-fuel when necessary. Again, I have no experience with this stuff, so reastically how long would a tank of gas last me? A day? Half a day? 2 days? If it lasts a good while then I can just plan to use fuel cans and run to the store. But if I have to refuel multiple times a day, then I'm going to need some barrels of fuel that can be refueled. You can probably see I haven't quite thought this through in detail enough yet. Any advice you can come up with is appreciated.

4. I'm a bit worried about the slopes on the property and the work to be done on them. Never work across the slope. I just worry that we start digging holes, on the slopes, and driving tractors/bobcats on them could result in some accidents. I also worry about traction with these things. All videos I see they are usually on flat ground. There's a good amount of flats on the land, but they are separated by some pretty big, and in some places steep, hills/depressions.


We should be closing on the land next week, and once that's done, my friend and I plan to take our 4 wheelers out there and do some more scouting and get a better look. All of this information you guys have given me so far will help tremendously with being able to envision what might need to be done. Thank you for that.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

You definitely need a piece of heavy equipment. A big dozer that can "pop" out stumps with a 6 way blade or an excavator with a thumb. Different tactics but the same goal. Each is expensive. Sounds to me like you need more quotes from someone with heavy equipment. I would not want stumps flush with the ground myself. What diameter do they average? If they are close to flush, I think the excavator would be better. If you find someone to dig up the stumps reasonably, you could get yourself a good sized utility tractor with a FEL and push up your own burn piles. The advantage to this is you could buy a used tractor and implements (which hold their value). Work out a deal with a heavy equipment operator to bring his excavator there and maybe do 4 or more acres at a time. This would allow you to kind of put the heavy work on a payment plan and you have time to push up the piles and burn and then heavy disk and plant. Many an operator (if close by so the hauling is not too much $$$) would use you as "fill in" work between their big jobs and might cut you a better deal after working with you a while. It's all about money and how much you want to spend. When I say tractor, I mean like a 100hp or more. With a huge FEL. You need to maybe have it's underbelly and front end armoured to prevent damage. Keep us posted.

 

[mx842]

Six to 12" stuff is not all that big to deal with. Ideally to clean up that much ground you would put a track dozer, in the Cat D7 + range with a KG blade to cut off the stumps below the ground and a track loader Cat 955+ with a root rake to clean up and pile the brush in wind rows for burning. This way you don't have all the deep holes all over the place to deal with. The KG blade just splits and cuts the stump off about 4" below the ground. Then the root rake comes alond and pops what is left out of the ground and separates the dirt from the stuff you want to burn.

In a not so perfect world you could clean up the mess with the equipment you are talking about but it will take a long time. The first thing you want to do is start cleaning the smaller stuff out to keep mother nature from reclaiming it. You don't have to worry about pine stumps once the pine tree is cut the stump will die and never come back The hard woods are another story and the root mass will continue to throw out new life and over time it will create a new tree like nothing ever happened.

I would want to start by cutting it up in sections, by that I mean cleaning a path that you can drive through right down the middle and then another path the other way cutting it into 4 blocks. You always want to have access to your equipment where ever you are working in case something happens. The excavator is a great tool but as you mentioned you end up with holes that need back filling but a good operator will pluck out the stumps and bang them around enough to knock off as much dirt as possible for easier burning and then use the bucket to back fill and level the area as he goes. It is much easier to clean up the brush and tops just leaving the stumps for later removal and for this you could use the bobcat with the mulcher and or a medium sized tractor with a good heavy duty bush hog. Take the bush hog in to clean the smaller stuff creating working room for the mulcher to grind up the smaller stumps and tree tops that are left. Don't try to tackle the whole thing at one pop just divide it up in blocks then take small sections, 1 or 2 Acs at a time until the underbrush is gone just leaving the bigger stumps. You will want to grub any stumps where you make your brush piles but usually you can find a place large enough that doesn't have really large stuff to make your piles. If you have deep ravines this would be a good place to place your burn piles but you need to start on the higher end first and work your way downhill until the ravine is filled in killing two birds with one stone by both getting rid of the brush and stumps and turning low unusable land into flat, level land that you can use.

The reason I suggest doing this in small sections is that doing this without large equipment will take a long time, maybe years. When you do complete a spot of several Acs. you would be wise to disk it and plant something on it that you can bush hog keeping it from turning back to the wild and having to clean it over again. It only takes a couple years for the wild to creep in and take back over a field like it was never cleaned. You can also leave a lot of the large stumps but you will have to kill them, to keep them from growing new growth and becoming forest again. To do this you can start small fires on top of them as you are cleaning up and have many small fires rather than several large ones. It doesn't take much fire to dry out the stump and kill it, then it will start to rot and after several years they are easier to dig up or just leave them and they will eventually rot away to nothing.

One thing to remember mulching will get rid of a lot of your brush problems but it will also get rid of all the fuel you need to burn up all those stumps. However if you are working in good ground where you can shake off most of the dirt around them they will burn fairly well if you can get them packed tightly enough and keep pushing them closer together as they burn. I would keep an open mind and not get in too big of a hurry and take small sections at a time then plant as you go. Unless you are really rich guy and can afford a big clearing contractor to come in and turn your brush land into a golf course like setting this is your best bet. Just be careful, it's dangerous in the bush, even for the most seasoned operator and snakes and yellow jackets are the least of your worries when messing around with heavy equipment and brush clearing equipment and often times the smaller the tractor is the most dangerous because you will be pushing it to it and your limits. Be cautious, have fun, take your time and live to enjoy your hard work.

 

[rmorey]

I agree with mx842, doing it in smaller "bites" remember, 4 acres is only 400 ft square. (approx) AND you can rent that equipment. The CAT dealer would love t talk to you.

Have you advertized free firewood? Around here, folks would be happy to come and pick the firewood for nothing.

 

[boomer1025]

I agree with mx842, doing it in smaller "bites" remember, 4 acres is only 400 ft square. (approx) AND you can rent that equipment. The CAT dealer would love t talk to you.

Have you advertized free firewood? Around here, folks would be happy to come and pick the firewood for nothing.

.
Boy you must have very small acres in your area. Around here 4 acres is roughly 173,000 sq ft.

 

[Ken45101]

Seriously, thanks everyone for your suggestions! You are helping me learn a lot and giving me many ideas as to what I need to do. It's a lot of food for thought!

Questions:

1. If I use an excavator to remove the stumps (most stumps, that I've seen, are between 6-12" in diameter and about 4-8" high) won't that leave behind huge holes, since I'd have to dig around each one to pop the ball out? And whatever I use afterward, tractor, bobcat, or a bushhog attachment, wouldn't that be a problem?

2. When I asked the seller why they did what they did (putting all the brush in the gullys), he said it was to let them rot and build up the "holes". I don't understand this reasoning, as it seems like it would take decades for it to rot to a point where it's all gone.

3. This one is a bit off-topic. When I plan to buy the equipment, I need to have it delivered to the property since I don't have a means to transport it yet. I'll also need some type of fuel storage on the property so I can re-fuel when necessary. Again, I have no experience with this stuff, so reastically how long would a tank of gas last me? A day? Half a day? 2 days? If it lasts a good while then I can just plan to use fuel cans and run to the store. But if I have to refuel multiple times a day, then I'm going to need some barrels of fuel that can be refueled. You can probably see I haven't quite thought this through in detail enough yet. Any advice you can come up with is appreciated.

4. I'm a bit worried about the slopes on the property and the work to be done on them. Never work across the slope. I just worry that we start digging holes, on the slopes, and driving tractors/bobcats on them could result in some accidents. I also worry about traction with these things. All videos I see they are usually on flat ground. There's a good amount of flats on the land, but they are separated by some pretty big, and in some places steep, hills/depressions.


We should be closing on the land next week, and once that's done, my friend and I plan to take our 4 wheelers out there and do some more scouting and get a better look. All of this information you guys have given me so far will help tremendously with being able to envision what might need to be done. Thank you for that.

1) yes, digging out the stumps will leave holes. Best to fill them back in with the equipment that dug out the stumps or with a skid steer or dozer working with the excavator.

2) putting the slash in the gulleys is "out of sight, out of mind". You are right, it will take a long long time to decompose.

3) a lot of equipment will operate 4-12 hours on a tank of fuel (diesel for just about anything modern). My mini ex and skid steer both have 25+ gallon tanks, as does the bigger tractor. I really don't recommend filling them with 5 gallon cans although it can be done. Most contractors have tanks in their pickups for filling the equipment or a fuel truck. You can go with a 50 gallon drum and handpump as a relatively inexpensive alternative. Note, "off road" diesel is usually 15-40 cents a gallon cheaper (no road tax on it.)

Yes, working on slopes can be scary. Experienced operators know the limits to their equipment. Laying pipeline across mountains, they use cable winches on big dozers to hold the excavators working on the mountainside. I've heard of one incident where that failed....

 

[Ken45101]

.
Boy you must have very small acres in your area. Around here 4 acres is roughly 173,000 sq ft.

400 ft square (400x400) is different than 400 sq ft (20x20).

 

[LouieJunior]

There is a land-clearing forum on here and someone there can surely help you out with advice, possibly an estimate, etc.

Where is the land clearing forum? I've never seen it

 

[rustyshakelford]

Buy a decent sized dozer. Start shoving up piles and get them burning. Go slow. The stumps are hard on the back. Once you get the ground cover cleared up start digging stumps and use the dozer to back fill the holes. I wouldn't waste my money on a mulcher for your job. A 450 deere and up or 850 case minimum dozer. Cat 312 or jd120 and up on the hoe with a thumb. Good luck. It's really not that back

Brett

 

[rmorey]

400 ft square (400x400) is different than 400 sq ft (20x20).

What he said! :thumbsup:

 

[Kyle241]

Where is the land clearing forum? I've never seen it

Right here: Land Clearing

 

[dclynch]

I have to reply. We had the same thing the 150 acres we lease for hunting was select cut and the guy that did it left it a mess. You can believe me or not but we cleared trails to drive a jeep, 4 wheeler. Side by side down by ourselves with no equipment other than 4 wheelers and a chain saw. Since then I have bought a tractor, brush hog and roto tiller as after the select cut it opened up a few areas for food plots. I can honestly say at first I was mad when it was cut but now after a few years it has made this property just beautiful. the hunting gets better every year. Dont know if you are a hunter or not either way we have trails that go all around the property.

 

[scoutcub]

OK, I have to jump in here on this. Lots of great advice here thus far and several good options proposed.

I'm in a similar situation, I have 62 acres I bought 4 years ago that had just been logged, with tops and stumps everywhere. I bought a dozer (18,000lb) to clear the brush, clear trails, and dig stumps. The first 2 tasks it did well, but digging stumps is not the dozers forte....at least the bigger hardwood stumps that I have.
Soooo, I bought a 30,000 lb excavator. Awesome for removing stumps.


My plan is to clear an area for a house, pole barn, create riding trails, and open up the woods, as in clearing out lots of the undergrowth. I will leave some piles of brush in a few select areas for game. I dont think I will remove all the stumps on the property, there are just too many. I will use my brush hog, the tractor in the avatar (49HP) with the grapple, the dozer and ex. I also have lots of usable firewood logs, that I grapple into a clearing, and cut up there.
The first load I donated to the my church's angel auction.
It'll be slow going since I'm doing it alone, as I will just grapple/push the brush into one massive pile and burn it. Already had a few great burns. My problem with the stumps is they have clumps of dirt on em and the dirt is hard to burn...:laughing: This is the kind of stump I'm dealing with....
So once the burn is over I will move the pile around with the dozer, remove all the dirt, and repile the stumps for another burn, after adding more brush.
The only thing I still need to get is a root rake for the dozer blade.....would make the cleanup much easier.
For diesel, I have a 300 gallon tank with a gravity nozzle up on a stand, easiest way for me. I think the dozer/ex have approx 40-50 gal tanks, thats a lot of work.
As you said, it's theraputic, it's my getaway, and get a bit of a workout picking up sticks/logs, cutting and throwing firewood. I'm also a pyro, :fiery: so I love a good fire with a beer and cigar.
I got the 3 pieces of equipment for under 100K. I can always sell the big equipment for close to what I paid for it, whenever that might be.....
Sounds like a great project we can follow on TBN!

 

[scoutcub]

OK, I have to jump in here on this. Lots of great advice here thus far and several good options proposed.

I'm in a similar situation, I have 62 acres I bought 4 years ago that had just been logged, with tops and stumps everywhere. I bought a dozer (18,000lb) to clear the brush, clear trails, and dig stumps. The first 2 tasks it did well, but digging stumps is not the dozers forte....at least the bigger hardwood stumps that I have.
Soooo, I bought a 30,000 lb excavator. Awesome for removing stumps.
View attachment 324515

My plan is to clear an area for a house, pole barn, create riding trails, and open up the woods, as in clearing out lots of the undergrowth. I will leave some piles of brush in a few select areas for game. I dont think I will remove all the stumps on the property, there are just too many. I will use my brush hog, the tractor in the avatar (49HP) with the grapple, the dozer and ex. I also have lots of usable firewood logs, that I grapple into a clearing, and cut up there. View attachment 324516View attachment 324517
The first load I donated to the my church's angel auction.
It'll be slow going since I'm doing it alone, as I will just grapple/push the brush into one massive pile and burn it. Already had a few great burns. My problem with the stumps is they have clumps of dirt on em and the dirt is hard to burn...:laughing: This is the kind of stump I'm dealing with....View attachment 324518View attachment 324519
So once the burn is over I will move the pile around with the dozer, remove all the dirt, and repile the stumps for another burn, after adding more brush.
The only thing I still need to get is a root rake for the dozer blade.....would make the cleanup much easier.
For diesel, I have a 300 gallon tank with a gravity nozzle up on a stand, easiest way for me. I think the dozer/ex have approx 40-50 gal tanks, thats a lot of work.
As you said, it's theraputic, it's my getaway, and get a bit of a workout picking up sticks/logs, cutting and throwing firewood. I'm also a pyro, :fiery: so I love a good fire with a beer and cigar.
I got the 3 pieces of equipment for under 100K. I can always sell the big equipment for close to what I paid for it, whenever that might be.....
Sounds like a great project we can follow on TBN!

 

[Ken45101]

Nice equipment, I'm sure it's lots of fun

One thing I've heard about buying used dozers: it helps a lot if you can repair them yourself, they need a fair amount of maintenance and field service is very expensive.

 

[scoutcub]

sorry, dont know how I double posted....

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

sorry, dont know how I double posted....

It was such a good post, it deserved to be stated twice.

 

[scoutcub]

Nice equipment, I'm sure it's lots of fun

One thing I've heard about buying used dozers: it helps a lot if you can repair them yourself, they need a fair amount of maintenance and field service is very expensive.

Ken is quite correct. Right after I got the dozer, a got a transmission temp warning light.....obviously not a good light, and "red" to boot. I fiddled with it, but it never went away. Called in the tech....took them a few hours to track it down, was just the sensor. A sensor, with labor and field visit, cost $500. :bawling:
Good think was, after talking to the tech, found out about 2 guys that live rght next to me that work heavy equipment on the side....and the cash price is muuuucchh less. Definitely a good resource to find/have if you have heavy equipment.

 

[scoutcub]

It was such a good post, it deserved to be stated twice.

Haha, thanks Kyle!
One thing I forgot to mention...
regarding waiting till winter. As you can see in the equipment picture.....wintertime, lots of mud in the tracks....which is not good for em. Wears em out much quicker. I basically shut down working in the winter, or rainy/muddy conditions, and prefer working on the dry ground. I'll take my chances with bees and varmints....:bumblebee: :snake::laughing:

 

[bigdeano]

Be sure to check out the burning regulations in your area. Here in Western Washington we have to have a permit and the piles can only be up to four feet square. It's a bummer if you make a huge pile and then can't burn it.