Need advice on starting up cattle and hay business/extra job

[Creamer]

Welcome to TBN.

I am agreeing with Denny. Nice equipment is nice but walk before you run. 56 or 66 series IH or a 20 series Deere will go a long ways in haying. Rolling it or square baling is a decision based on the type of hay and customer base. Around here most people want some alfalfa in it - the dairy guys want pure alfalfa. If you are going for horse hay it has to be very good quality and small squares. Dairies and feedlots do not want to mess with small squares.

If you get 60 hp tractor with a loader you can handle a rounds or squares just not the big ones of either. Storing it is key as many have mentioned but around here you need to get it off the ground as well - letting them sit on wet ground will ruin a lot of hay.

Denny's pricing is pretty good but you can get older wheel rakes for $1500 around here - everybody seems to want V rakes so the singles go cheap. Some people like the rotary rakes but I think they are a little rough on some of the hay like alfalfa but work nice for grass hays.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

RUN FROM HAY TARPS!!! unless you want to buy two of mine then they are the best thing since sliced bread! I had pallets laid down and built my stacks in a triangle shape to shed snow and water, still have problems with moisture not be able to escape. My next step was going to be a powered ventilation system to help wi th it but I got out of doing it.

 

[Farmer495]

Neighbors have nothing but land for me to grow hay on. Got about 80-100ac for me to do as I please with nothing in return asked. Square bales are labor intensive, I've work with them before. It was always a family event once a year growing up to load and stack hay my grandfather cut. Got a family member that's ten miles away that has cattle and all equipment. (for him and his cattle) I may could go partners with him but I wanted to do my own thing. I have help as far as knowledge and experience goes. Labor help will be me, me and me with my two boys 9 and 14. I'm sure I could go in half on a round baler with that same family member cause I know he's wanting one and would probably jerk my arm off at the offer. I originally wanted square bales because of them being small and that means (usually) cheaper everything tractor and attachments. Plus I was thinking they would be easier to get rid of with locals and easier to haul if I needed to haul. I got 2500 chev diesel to haul with. Getting into round bales (I would imagine) means I needed bigger rig to start. IDK just stating my thoughts. If I'm wrong on any of it, just shoot me straight. Budget +-30,000. nothing down. yes gulp haha I know that isn't much and yes I know how much tractors and equipment is. I wanna be in it for the long term. Hopefully make a little money to spend more time doing this than my day job in the distant future.


RedNeckRacin
market is pretty good. If local falls through I got a guy in TN 4h north that says he would take all I could bring him. At what price you ask....I don't know yet but I do know they pay double for what we charge here. Storing Hay is my bigger puzzle right now. I may could build a hay shed. That I can do my self. Just need to figure dimensions and price material. I work 14.5hr days now so long days I'm used to. Nope I cant tell much difference in Hay (yet). I know what looks good and bad TO ME and yes I can tell if its garbage or not.

Hope I answered all your questions. Thank you for the responding. I know you got to be shaking your head because everything is rough when you don't get hand me downs and shown the ropes from early on. But that's one of the beauty's of me starting at ground zero is me being able to pick and choose how I want to start it all and what I want to do. I will be live and learn lessons just as I was a kid. The best Is I have people I trust to call if I need help. When it all boils down; I'm just wanting a cattle and tractor to play on and make a little extra cash. Ill take other thoughts and opinions on other things to do with my spare time and land at disposal; but I'm pretty set I want a few cattle. I looked into corn but it look like it would take big $$$ to start fresh.

Thanks and keep it coming

$30K will easily buy you a full line of hay equipment if you buy all used and buy carefully:

50-60 PTO HP 2wd ROPS tractor with loader
3pt disk mower
side delivery rake
tedder
4x4 or 4x5 round baler
wagon

I have good luck tarping hay, but would prefer not to tarp anything and put in barns.

 

[CDennyRun]

Denny's pricing is pretty good but you can get older wheel rakes for $1500 around here - everybody seems to want V rakes so the singles go cheap. Some people like the rotary rakes but I think they are a little rough on some of the hay like alfalfa but work nice for grass hays.

Good point. I can find older four wheel rakes around here for as low as $600. I keep thinking he'll need something bigger, give the size of fields he'll be haying.. But then I remember he's doing small bales. A large V-rake won't be needed! Ha ha. A decent side delivery of good name will do him fine in the $1k-ish range.

 

[CDennyRun]

You'll need a tedder too. Depending on size, that could be $1-3k for what you're doing. If you go cheaper on the rake, mower, and only get one waggon, you could save a few grand. Sorry, I totally forgot to mention a tedder in my post!

Every once in a while I'll see a good JD or NH baler go for 3-4K. If you shop around and go to auctions, you can more than likely do better than $6k for a reliable machine.

Chris

 

[bbd 25]

Thanks EVERYONE that has responded. what a great forum with great people. this has helped ALOT. looking at what everyone has posted; I have written everything down that I'm going to do BEFORE I buy anything. That will help for sure. Looking at everything that's needed I'm going to be very tight with my budget. take a look and tell me what I'm missing or if I'm wrong.
Baler--6k+-
mower--3k+-
rake---2k
tedder--2k
trailer--2.5k
wagon-3k
tarp storage-500

not needed but really needed
scrape--800
bush hog-800

All that NOT including the Tractor is $20,500+- for just implements. wow... but not too surprising. Am I missing anything? Is my pricing about right for good used equip. I believe it will be very hard to find a Good 50-60hp tractor with FEL for 10k though. Maybe I could bush hog and scrape till I get enough $$$ to buy everything idk.

Is anyone doing hay (that started up on your own) Making money at it?

***tried to edit on my phone and it deleted my last post***

 

[AGRIMAN]

I have been raising cows and growing hay all my live. In years passed we did a lot of custom baleing and did make money, but today I think you would be better off with the cows.

If it were me, I would buy a nice used tractor ( mower, hay fork, harrow) and spend the rest on cows. Just buy your hay for the first few years until you get your herd producing. You will make more money on the cows than you will tiring to bale/sale hay.

Once you get a steady income established, you can branch out to baling your own hay and maybe making some extra income.

 

[AGRIMAN]

RUN FROM HAY TARPS!!! unless you want to buy two of mine then they are the best thing since sliced bread! I had pallets laid down and built my stacks in a triangle shape to shed snow and water, still have problems with moisture not be able to escape. My next step was going to be a powered ventilation system to help wi th it but I got out of doing it.

I don't have any problem with tarps. We stack three bales high (4x6) triangle style ( 6 bales to the stack) 60 bales to the tarp. We do get some ventilation from the ends as they are not full covered. We also don't get snow here.

They are more work/aggravation than a barn, but I like them because I can put a portable barn any where I need it.

 

[Ed of all trades]

I don't want to be offending in any way, but if I was going into something and someone saw, or thought they did I would want to know it. If I am wrong please forgive me and know that I only want the best for you.
You sound like someone with a romantic idea of farming from your youth with no idea of how to go about it.

1. do you know when hay is ready to cut? rake? bale?
2. Can you fix equipment.
3. have you ever maintained equipment.
4. Do you have the git up and go to get up and go when you are tired and wore out from the extra work?
5. Do you have help? are you going to put up 1000's of square bales of hay all by yourself?
6 Do you have the $$$$$$$ to cover the equipment without making any money from your labor as you learn.
7 Do you have the $$$$$$ to cover repairs, fuel, Ect without income from the hay?
8 If you don't have reliable help do you have the $$$$$$$$ to buy a hay system, to handle the hay for you?
9 What do you do if it rains on your hay?
Do I sound like I am trying to talk you out of it? I'm not, just trying to help you go in with your eyes open and no big suprises. I put up hay for years and know what it is like to have 500 bales of hay ready to bale and your help is hung over and doesn't want to get out of bed. Or the tractor-baler-whatever breaks at the worst time. Those things are hard but if you add to that a lack of know how it will be that much harder.

If after you read this you still want to do this you likely eather have what it takes or you are fooling yourself. My advice is don't try to grab the whole world at once. Start small. 10 ac will be pretty big for the first season and might even be to big, 5 might be better. Keep account of every penny you spend on that 1st field, not just most of your $$$$$ but every penny. That way you know better if you want to do the same field next year, or more or not at all.
I love getting up hay, I miss it and wish I could still work it into my life. I just don't want you putting your neck out without having some idea of what you are up to. Ed

 

[Garycw]

I have been raising cows and growing hay all my live. In years passed we did a lot of custom baleing and did make money, but today I think you would be better off with the cows. If it were me, I would buy a nice used tractor ( mower, hay fork, harrow) and spend the rest on cows. Just buy your hay for the first few years until you get your herd producing. You will make more money on the cows than you will tiring to bale/sale hay. Once you get a steady income established, you can branch out to baling your own hay and maybe making some extra income.

^
I 2nd what he said. If you've area now that will produce hay, find someone else to cut and roll for a share. Buy the rest if you need. Get a tractor that can handle the rolls, a bush hog and a wagon. Maybe also a seeder/spreader. or rent one as needed. The local co-op can spread lime on the pasture / hayfield if needed.
I've seen several ways of storing hay rolls. From barns & shelters to wrap to just leaving in a area on the ground. On the latter, the hay rots on the outer layer, hay still good under that. The cows and horses still eat it up. Especially the cows.