Need advice quickly one trailer purchase

[Gary Fowler]

I have a deal going on a 20 foot car hauler with hydraulic surge brakes that will be used in Texas, Louisiana and Arkansas on the pickup of my Kubota B26 TLB (4000 pounds)
While trying to access trailer regs for Ark, which so far has been unsuccessful on actual state internet site, I came across an eHow statement that surge brakes arent legal in some states and that on trailers over 3000 separate braking system is required. Before I buy this trailer with intention to immediately hook to it and travel thru Ark, La and back thru Texas with the B26 on top, I was hoping that someone with towing knowledge can fill me in. I dont know that the trailer will weigh 3000 but I am sure it is going to be close at that length.
Any info is greatly appreciated and need to know for sure before Monday night as that is when the deal is going down.

From what I understand the weight requirement is calculated based on design and not on actual weight of the trailer on scales

 

[Gary Fowler]

I finally found a trailer towing site (not state gov. site) that said that every state required 4 wheel brakes on all trailers over 1500 lbs Tare weight. In looking at trailer sales sites, I have not seen any of them selling trailers with 4wheel brakes regardless of length of trailers and some not even 2 wheel brakes so I guess anyone buying them is illegal. Maybe their trailers are so light that they are exempt from brakes under most states laws, except California which said 500kg and over needed brakes on all wheels. I still have the question on hydraulic surge brakes if they are legal. I guess I will go ahead with the purchase and if I find it needs brakes, I will put them on. I think Diamond Pilot indicated in a post that they can be retrofit to almost any trailer axle easily and in just a few hours.

 

[rambler]

The surge brakes are frownd upon but more or less allowed for outfits like U-Haul which sorta need to use that type.

I have an older but good car trailer, only 1 axle with electric brakes, like you say supposed to be on both axles, but most I see only have one... I don't have the trailer licenced, don't need to n a farm use trailer in my state, so suppose I'm all right.

Not a good answer to your questions....


--->Paul

 

[Skyco]

I finally found a trailer towing site (not state gov. site) that said that every state required 4 wheel brakes on all trailers over 1500 lbs Tare weight. In looking at trailer sales sites, I have not seen any of them selling trailers with 4wheel brakes regardless of length of trailers and some not even 2 wheel brakes so I guess anyone buying them is illegal.

I wouldn't trust the site saying EVERY state requires brakes on 4 wheels over 1500 lbs. That is incorrect information. Heck SC doesn't even require ANY brakes until over something like 3000 lbs or over 40% of tow vehicle weight. There is also no law here requiring brakes on all 4 until over 3000 lbs. Personally I would not own a trailer that didn't have brakes on all 4. If it is heavy enough to need 4 wheels then it needs 4 brakes too IMO.

There have been some legal issues with surge brakes IIRC, I've had them on boat trailers and they worked ok and I tolerated them because of the complications of running electric brakes on boat trailers due to water immersion.
For a land only trailer I don't want them, electric are MUCH better, fully adjustable (via the controller) on the fly for one thing. Personally I would not buy a surge brake trailer unless it was at least $500 less than the same trailer with 4 wheel electric brakes, but that is just me.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I was just following a link about putting electric brakes on and Diamond Pilot posted a link to R&P trailer that has parts for adding electric brakes. Looks like I can add brakes to the second axle for about an hours labor and $140 or so in green backs.
The trailer is 20 foot car hauler with advertised 3500 # axles but they are 6 hole rims so that tells me that they are 5200# rated with new 6 ply tires, new brakes and new hydraulic master cylinder and the negotiated price is $1300 so I think I can put the brakes on the other axle if it doesnt have 4 wheel brakes (dont know yet on that but suspect only has one axle) and still have a nice 20 ft. trailer for around 1500. I dont plan to haul a bunch of weight, in fact my 1500 crew cab chevy will be about maxed out with the little B26 and the trailer. Mainly bought the trailer for the one trip to go get the tractor in Louisiana and transport back to Ark. but it will be handy to have in case I have to take it or my brother in laws NH 2030 in for repairs. Dealers want $200 to pick them up and I guess another 200 to deliver. For the one time required, my BIL got a neighbor to to it for gas money but I dont like to impose too much on a neighbor.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have seen 3500# units with 6lug. Also 6 ply tires are not up to the task for 5200# axles, you need 8 ply.

Are you sure the brakes are hydro?

Chris

 

[s219]

Only some states require brakes on all axles. But a lot of trailer manufacturers make them that way in order to have a "50 state" trailer. The same trailers will also have lights laid out to be legal in all states (for example, some states require tail lights at the very back, others allow them to be set forward a bit).

 

[Gary Fowler]

Yes it is surge brakes see photo.
While 8 ply tires may be the preferred tire for 5200 # axle, I do believe it would be the load rating that would decide the loading and not just the plys by them selves. I bow to your rather extensive trailering knowledge, but requiring 8 ply tires for 5200# when some 3500# have 4 ply sounds a bit like overkill for a tire that only needs to support 2600 max load. Granted car tires are not the best for trailers but many of them work just fine with them on.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I just finished doing some quick down and dirty net searching regarding ply rating and most of the tires now dont have a ply rating just a load rating. I did find one that said Load range D is old 6 ply and Load range E is old 8 ply but nothing that now states how many plys are in these tire in the spec or description. Much depends on the size as to how much weight they can safely carry as larger sizes can support upward of 3000# in D rating while some E ratings wont carry what the D rating will in the same diameter. Not really knowing at this point what the size or rating on the tires are, is pretty much futile in looking for info.
Owner says it is 3500# axles with 6 ply tires but didnt specify the rating so I will have to wait and see what I get, but all the info on trailers I have seen says the 6 hole rims are 5200# even though Diamond Pilot says that he has seen 6 hole in 3500#. I dont know is there is a standard for this or is perhaps only the newer trailers use the 5,6 & 8 holes patterns so as to relate to axle capacity of 3500, 5200 and 7000 rating. Then again, maybe it is like the definition of SCUT vs CUT so as everyone has their own perception.
Regardless of the axle rating whether 3500 or 5200 and tire size or rating, as long as it is 6 ply tire in at least a 235 70 15 it will carry that little Kubota B26 4000# TLB

 

[Diamondpilot]

In my experience of buying 100's of trailer tires 4 ply is LR B. 6 is C, 8 is D, E is 10.

6 lug are most always 5,200 or 6,000 but there are some odd ball 6 lug 3,500.

8 lug are always 7,000 or 8,000.

Most 6 ply C rated tires I have seen are 1,750# max load each.

Chris