Need Help determining what I need

[StAngerSandman]

First, thanks for all of the amazing information on this site. I am blown away by how helpful people seem to be as I read threads, really trying to help dial people in to what they really need...

That being said, I am REALLY unsure about what I really need.

Situation:

I recently purchased 80 acres of land. Currently, it is being farmed with 30 acres of tillable, about 20 acres of hay, and 30 acres of pasture. There are a couple of ponds and a creek on the property, but not much for trees. Picture below. My "day job" had a couple of really good years, which means I have some cash to work with right now, and would like to invest that cash into this land, a large barn/shop, and some equipment.

My wife and I would like to build a home and move out there at some point, but unsure if that is in the next few years, or a longer term goal. It is about 30 min from my house in the suburbs, so we are currently thinking about it as a "weekend warrior" farm, being there 1 or 2 nights a week, along with nearly every weekend. Father in law used to run a lot of cattle, and will be helping out a ton and checking on things during the week as well.

My goals for the land / Needs for the tractor:

1) Need to build and maintain a 1/4 to 1/2 mile driveway (fighting with wife over location of the future pole barn and potential house... )
2) will likely not do row crops at least in the foreseeable future (but if we ever move out there, may consider it, particularly if I can get a little more land to go with it).
3) Will want to run cattle for sure once I am out there. Will definitely need to move bales around, etc.
4) I think I would like to convert the tillable land to hay, and mow/bale/my own, selling any excess. FIL thinks there is no money in it, but it seems to pencil out with what people are getting for round bales around here.
5) Smaller pond to the north needs constant battling and washes out. Some of this I may bring in bigger equipment to work on, but may need to work on the dam, etc. with the tractor.
6) FIL built his last 2 houses, and we used the tractor for all kinds of stuff. If we build, I will likely GC the home, and do a bit of the work myself.
7) Not sure that a grapple, or backhoe are important to me now. Will have some jobs they could be useful for as I work on stuff, but most of the jobs would be big enough to warrant renting the right machines (long water line and electric runs, etc.)


Based on everything on here and the threads I have read, I hear a few constants:

1) Bigger is better for both weight and HP. (with weight likely being more important than HP)
2) Very few (if any) regret having a cab
3) 80 acres is a lot, and my time is valuable to job #1. Bigger means work gets done faster, and that is important to me.
4) Right machine for the job is important. sometimes a smaller tractor is more useful.
5) Get 4WD
6) Get FEL, will always find jobs for it.
7) Need a big enough tractor for hay if I decide to do that much myself (back to #3)
8) Short term need: will be pulling a ton of fence, and laying down a ton of new fence. Currently, the land is broken up into tons of sections, and I don't want that at this point.


With all that in mind, I am leaning towards the following:

1) Get a larger, cabbed, 70+ HP machine for any hay/baling/bigger jobs. Looking at several things including JD 5075, JD 5085, Kubota 7060, etc. with FEL.

And / OR

2) A smaller tractor (probably no cab) like 30-40HP with FEL for smaller jobs, working in tighter spaces, etc. L3901, JD 3038, etc.


I guess what I'm trying to figure our is if this is overkill. I feel like the key question is whether I will want to try to hay this myself. I may just be looking for someone to tell me that there are 200 other uses for the bigger tractor and with 80 acres I should know I'm going to run into them and get the bigger one? How helpful is the smaller tractor if I buy the big one? Any reason to do both, or is that total overkill at this point?

Any help is appreciated. I think I'm just trying to figure out what I am not thinking about that I will likely end up doing with this tractor, and am I better off with one larger tractor, or should I buy something smaller until I solve the hay question?

Thanks for reading, and I sincerely appreciate any thoughts / advice.

- StAngerSandman

 

[jeff9366]

I do not hay myself but small farms all around me raise commercial hay.

My impression is many haying tasks need to be done within a finite time or the hay is depreciated.

Drying, especially. I periodically witness frenetic hay activity on multiple farms, certain days.

I am not sure being in residence one or two nights per week is compatible with raising hay PROFITABLY.

Where I live in Florida prosperous full time hay farmers seem to have at least 300 flat acres.


Consider a small Skid Steer as you consider a small tractor. As Skid Steer loaders are much more powerful than tractor loaders, you could omit loader on the large tractor, making large tractor significantly shorter and more maneuverable. For pond work and home construction a rear engine Skid Steer is far more useful than a front engine tractor. Hydraulic drive Skid Steer post augers allow reversal of bit. Mechanical drive tractor post augers rotate only one direction. Sometimes bits get stuck, so reversal is valuable. Skid Steers are better than tractor loaders with a Bucket Spade. (PHOTO #4)

Budget for a utility vehicle early.

 

[dbaer78]

It’s hard to tell you what you really need... but I would lean towards buying a smaller 50-60 horsepower 4wd utility tractor with loader initially... and then as you increase your “farm production” I’d add a larger used ag size tractor ... maybe 80-100hp or so. You can buy them pretty cheap comparatively. A healthy old tractor is about the only way to make money on 50 acres of hay even in Kansas I’d bet. My best friend hays about 100 acres and did it with a 40hp 5040 Allis Chalmers for years til he bought his new Massey. So, in that respect you could also hay your 20 acres with a smaller tractor for a few years until you want to increase your acreage. However, if you don’t particularly like maintenance of old stuff... I suppose I’d go for one new 60-80hp utility tractor.
Again this is just what I might do... just my thoughts from my experience helping my friends small hay business and taking care of my own very rural property.

 

[Egon]

Fifty to sixty or so HP with loader. Don’t worry about weight, the manufactures do a good job of keeping the ratios in line. Four Wheel drive. And do go shopping for tractor and implements. It's fun and gives a better perspective of what is going on. Doing this on a regular schedule over a period of time makes for a much better overall perspective.

 

[Jchonline]

Man this is a tough one.

You arent going to want to carry large round bales around a pasture a bunch with an entry level utility tractor. The M7060 or JD 5075 are entry level at tractors and if you have any type of reasonable haying operation they are not big enough.

My suggestion is to get the machine you need NOW for the tasks you have in the short term. Once you get settled and want to seriously consider haying (which I would recommend against on such a small property) you can look at suitable equipment then. On the note, your FIL is probably correct. Upfront costs for haying equipment are significant. It will take decades before you break even selling off 80 acres. We have a 100 acre farm in TX (family) and we have looked at doing it ourselves many times. It just doesn't make financial sense. We fertilize it, cut it, dry it and let a friend bale. Then we move the bales. It is almost all sold.

For machines if you do go full in on a hay Ag machine I would look at 100+ HP. Don’t expect to get a backhoe for one so make sure you take that off the list.

What I would recommend is refining your list first. Here is what I see right now.

1. Hay stuff but in the future (so I recommend ignoring this for now)
2. Road construction (if you want this to be done right you need big iron and a compactor to get the proper base in place. I would hire this out to a pro)
3. Pond remediation (maybe some with a Skid Steer, but probably same as #2. If this is a significant job you will probably need an excavator, maybe a dozer. If small a SS could be great)
4. Field work (tilling, plowing - this could be done now and for the # of acres you have a small utility tractor would work)
5. Road maintenance - something with some weight.

What other tasks do you have?

 

[ericm979]

I'll second the UTV. Depending on the terrain and trees you may be able to use a beater 4x4 Samurai or small truck. They can be had cheaper than a new UTV but are less capable. OTOH if it's still licensed you can run into town (you can on a UTV in some areas as well).

It can be hard to find a backhoe attachment for your tractor later on, and potentially more expensive than if you buy with the tractor. The 3pt BHs are questionable. I lucked into a used Branson specific BH for my 3725. Given how much it moves the tractor around I'm not sure I'd want one connected by 3pt arms. I've had a short test of a mid range Kubota excavator and that worked so much better than my BH. The controls alone were far superior not to mention the reach and manuverability. If you have a lot of digging to do I'd rent or buy an excavator.

 

[ForumJunkie]

Exit LIGHT
Enter NIGHT

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I would ignore the haying entirely for now. Your Father in Law is right. There's no money in it, not in that small a place, and even then, if you don't own the equipment yet, the investment is pretty steep. See if you can find someone to come in and bale your field on shares.

I would look at large sized CUTs to full on utility tractors, brands of your preference. Something in the 4000-6000 pound bare chassis weight as a minimum. 40-60 hp range minimum. Get one with a FEL and SSQA, 4x4, R-1's, a couple of rear remotes, and fill those rear tires.

If later on, you get real serious about running cows, then maybe look at haying again. But look at haying to feed your own cows to enhance your cattle business. Not to raise hay to try and sell off. Then maybe you can find an old but running Ag tractor and hay equipment.

 

[gladehound]

40-60hp minimum makes sense. But why not also look at 100+ hp units. 80 acres is a lot of land to work part time and more hp means less time. A tractor isn't "too big" until it can't fit where you need it to fit or can't be transported the way you want to transport it. Happy shopping!

 

[StAngerSandman]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. Sorry for not being active on here, have been at the property every day this week enjoying 60 degree weather and cutting and clearing sloppy hedge trees growing in the stream and cluttering the view...

To address a few of the thoughts/questions above:

1) I already have a UTV. (winch was awesome for pulling trees out of the creek!)
2) I definitely think 40HP is the minimum I would consider, and am aiming for 60+. I will likely have to mow pastures a couple times a year, and want something that can get the job down quickly with a wide mower.
3) I agree I need to give up on hay at least for a year or two. Don't have the time or equipment to focus on that yet.
4) Road construction is being hired out, I am focused on long term maintenance. May end up with only a 600' driveway with the new home / shop layout we are considering.
5) I am willing to consider larger tractors (100HP plus), but I'm just not sure what the incremental HP / weight would be needed for at this point (kind of what I wanted to ask the people here: What stuff will I likely want to use the tractor for that I am not thinking about currently?)

ForumJunkie: Thanks for getting the reference!

StAngerSandman