Need help sizing tractor.

[tractordk]

Ok, the time has finally come to buy a tractor. I have been watching this site for a few years now and have asked a few questions here and there.

I currently do not have a tractor and desperately need one. I have about 350 total acres in eastern maine. Approximately 120 acres is hay field / pasture, the rest is ponds and woods. The land is relatively flat but does have some hills with moderate grades. Much of the land gets pretty soft for a good portion of the spring / summer.

We currently have someone hay the fields for us 1 time per summer. I don't have any intention of ever haying the fields myself. We do however have to maintain the fields, especially the perimeters with a bush hog.

I am interested in the following attachments immediately:
a moderately sized medium/heavy duty bush hog for field maintance
chipper for chipping 6 inch and smaller trees
FEL for moving dirt/rocks, etc
grapple for FEL for general pickup, digging up roots, etc
backhoe for planting trees, pulling stumps, digging drainage ditches, etc

Basically I need a general purpose tool to help me with everything around the yard from pullings stumps, maintaing roads and fields, etc.

I am tentatively looking at a JD 4720, 110 TLB or a 5025 series. The only tractor dealer that is relatively local (an hour drive) is JD.

I love the idea of having a cab, but don't need it.

I had a 110 TLB on our property for a couple weeks 2 years ago and loved the machine, it just seemed a bit small for working in the fields. It also seemed to get stuck more often than I would like. I have a HD pickup with a large winch so I can pull things out easily, but its a pain to have to do often.

I just rented a 4720 with FEL and 5' heavy duty bush hog for 2 days. I thought the machine was nice but seemed a bit "light duty" We moved some rocks and heavy clay with the FEL and the FEL seemed to flex an awful lot. Also with a load of clay the FEL's hydraulic strength seemed inadequate - i was unable to do 2 functions at once. I was also suprised it wasnt more powerful. It couldn't maintain speed in the C range when going up hills from one work site to another - even on paved road caring only the bush hog and empty loader. I have pretty much ruled out the 4720, it just seems like its not designed for the heavy duty work i have in mind.

My biggest concern is HP and transmissions. I love the hydro transmission, but it seems the only machine that is beafy enough to do the loader work i want to do that has hydro is the TLB. Unfortunately the TLB seems pretty small for field work. So I really don't know what to do.

Any thoughts/advice/etc would be very very much appreciated. Please feel free to ask questions if i can do anything to clarify my needs / terrain.

Thanks so much in advance,

Ben

 

[john_bud]

Ben,

It sure sounds like you have a little slice of heaven up there!

You may want to target a larger tractor. Something in the 70 hp range.

Get a medium duty 8' brush cutter if you are going to be cutting brush and small trees. A 15' bat wing mower if it's just going to be cutting field grass. Once you see the price of new large attachments, you may want to look at used.

You probably will want 4x4 to work in the muddy seasons. And go right for R1 tires. May want to get some real good ice chains too.

Kubota M8540 or M9540 would be good. The loader for it will lift 2700# These are cab tractors with heat an A/C.

The Kubota M95S or M105S are less fancy non-cab tractors. Loader will lift 2600#

In that class of tractor, you will find either straight gears or power-shift. Power shift is a good thing. Bullet proof and easy to use. Not as easy as a hydro, but you probably won't find a hydro in that size machine.


If you want to stick with green, look at the larger ones in the 5025 series or the 5600 if you want comfort of a cab.


I like ripe things, so leave the greene ones be and go for the orange (ripe) ones! LOL!

jb

 

[tractordk]

JB,

thanks for the reply!

Yeah i certainly love it up here, just can't wait to get a tractor so I can spend some time enjoying it!

At this point most of the cutting I would do is around the fields cutting alders and bushes, so it sounds like the 8' brush cutter is a go.

I definately agree on 4x4, i think that it's a necessity.

I am going to have to try the reverser/shuttle transmissions. That sounds like a good compromise.

I looked at the Kubotas you recomended and they look like great machines. The only issue may be dealer locations. It appears the closest dealer is 2 hours away. Ill have to call them and see what they have to say.


Thanks again,

Ben

 

[BigMccorm]

I'm thinking maybe something in the 200 hp range might suit you well..........lol!!!!!

 

[RollingsFarms]

i would think you could easily manage with say a 5105 or a 5205 4wd(50 & 56 hp).

 

[VABlue]

350 acres in Maine and you don't care about the cab? I could be wrong, but I don't think maintenance ends in the winter time. There's always something to do! IMHO, I wouldn't even look at tractors without a cab.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm NORMALLY one to temper "want" with reality, and stay with smaller, more efficient, lower priced tractors with the minimum of needed hp. But in your case, with a relatively large chunk of land, I'm going larger than those already suggested. My son and I just recently purchased a new Deere (6430) It's a dress up model, quite pricey. I'd have to say a bit overkill, but very nice to spend long hours in the cab. While we were shopping, I couldn't help but notice 2 other models I PROBABLY would have gravitated to had my son (who sees himself a future Donald Trump) not been involved in the purchase.

Since you seem to be zeroing in on a Deere, I'll confine my reply to what I have learned with Deere products.

One is the model 5425. MFWD, 81 hp, available with all the bells and whistles. Cab or open station, more than adaquate for loader work, enough power to handle even a 15' batwing in some conditions, should you ever need to go that route.

But the one that REALLY had my attention is the model 5603. I don't want to quote a price since I don't remember exactly what it is, but Deere has a special offer on this tractor right now. It's 99hp, MFWD, with a cab, (available without, but special deal is the cab model) and a quick attach loader. Pricing was thousands under anything comparable from any major brand. It's what would be considered a "basic" tractor by todays standards, but more than adaquate for even a modern farm operation. The HP and the loader are in line with what a haying operation using big round bales would want. That much hp would allow you to use anything from a simple 7' 3-point bush hog to a 15' batwing in most any conditions. That would allow you to "grow" your operation as time went on, and NOT underpower your future needs.

I farmed just over 200 acres for 35 years. I did so with 60 to 70 HP tractors as my largest for MOST of that time. For 8 years, I did have a 110 hp rig (Deere 4250 mfwd) Most of my land was devoted to hay or pasture land. From experience, I can tell you 60 to 70 hp is the absolute minimum you'll want. Otherwise, you're limited to implements that will keep you out in the field for long hours, even if it is just mowing edges of fields. You've got a hefty chunk of ground. You need a hefty tractor IMHO.

 

[Dmace]

Kioti makes a DK65 64hp cabbed tractor with a FEL capacity of 3,500 lbs at the pivot pins. Independent rear PTO with 52hp and weighs about 6925 lbs with a cab and ag tires. It lists the weight with and without the cab, so you can probably get it without the cab to save some money. It is one beautiful tractor.

My dealer, Batchelder Sales in Lebanon, ME on Rte 202, has been great and I got my cabbed CK20 from them brand new 2 years ago. They included the 50 hr service where they came and picked up the tractor for me to do the service and they are even going to come to me to install the revised loader plate so I don't have to travel to them.

 

[john_bud]

One more point - you may be able to save 40-70% of the purchase price if you get a used tractor with 2500-5000 hours on it.

This thread

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/99802-100-hp-tractor-suggestions.html

has some good leads on tractors in that size range.

 

[RoyJackson]

Farmwithjunk is pointing you in the right direction, Ben...

And I'll add one thing...
You're looking into acquiring several expensive items. I don't know your financial status, but watch your debt. A buddy of mine at a Deere dealer (sold me my 670) told me about a guy who inherited the property, bought all new equipment and put himself out of business before he got a decent start...overloaded himself with debt.
Don't make this mistake.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I pretty much concur with all the other advice so far. Sounds like the 4720 and 110 are too small for your purposes - great that you got to find that out without buying one first. I think the 5xxx series from Deere or the Mxxxx series from Kubota are good ones to look at. I own Deere and like it a bit better, but Kubota makes a good tractor also. I think you need to balance the pros of big size with cons - the bigger tractors won't be good in the woods and won't be maneuverable inside smaller pastures (approx. 2 acres but it depends on shape and what you're trying to do).

I own a JD 5105 and think it's a great tractor, but in your case I would be looking at more power, like the JD 5325/5425 or the Kubota M7040 or M8540. I wouldn't jump into the next size class above that (Kubota M95 or Deere 6xxx series) because it will probably be too big for some tasks, and then you have to start looking at buying 2 tractors up front.

I would be looking at 7' medium or heavy duty mowers or maybe 8-10' pull type mowers for your fields.

I have my first tractor and while I didn't want to think about the $$ at the time of purchase, I'm already thinking a cab would have been nice - and I'm only working on 20 acres and in Michigan where the winters aren't as cold. I think you should seriously consider a cab, if you can afford it. The JD 5603 does look like a screaming good deal right now - list price with a 542 FEL is about $49,000, I think, and selling price would hopefully be $45k or a bit less.

If there is a Kioti dealer reasonably close, I think their products are good quality also, and the DK65 with cab would probably be a good deal. It would be at the small end of what I think you should be looking at, though, and it's Kioti's largest tractor right now.

 

[Oleozz]

Unless you are going to be in the woods alot I agree with what everyone has said about cabs, well worth the extra money to be out of the sun and away from bugs in summer and snow in winter. As Farmwithjunk has stated the 5603 sounds ideal (he's given me the urge to buy one!!) and dmace's idea on the Kioti 65 might be worth checking out.

 

[BarryinMN]

A few more Q's - is it a year round homestead? Bias towards new or used equipment? Do you want something to do - the hay renter may already have the capability to maintain the fields, add drainage, etc.. How many hours per week/mo/year do you anticipate working the land?

I agree with your observation that ag equipment is less robust compared to industrial hardware. They are designed for 2 different price points.

A skid steer could be configured to do your tasks, or a mix of ag & industrial if time is a constraint?

 

[Bill Barrett]

I think I would look at used. Big used iron is cheap right now, and you'll more than likely get what you paid for it when you see what you want in a new one! Just a thought.

 

[flusher]

Ok, the time has finally come to buy a tractor. I have been watching this site for a few years now and have asked a few questions here and there.

I currently do not have a tractor and desperately need one. I have about 350 total acres in eastern maine. Approximately 120 acres is hay field / pasture, the rest is ponds and woods. The land is relatively flat but does have some hills with moderate grades. Much of the land gets pretty soft for a good portion of the spring / summer.

We currently have someone hay the fields for us 1 time per summer. I don't have any intention of ever haying the fields myself. We do however have to maintain the fields, especially the perimeters with a bush hog.

I am interested in the following attachments immediately:
a moderately sized medium/heavy duty bush hog for field maintance
chipper for chipping 6 inch and smaller trees
FEL for moving dirt/rocks, etc
grapple for FEL for general pickup, digging up roots, etc
backhoe for planting trees, pulling stumps, digging drainage ditches, etc

Basically I need a general purpose tool to help me with everything around the yard from pullings stumps, maintaing roads and fields, etc.

I am tentatively looking at a JD 4720, 110 TLB or a 5025 series. The only tractor dealer that is relatively local (an hour drive) is JD.

I love the idea of having a cab, but don't need it.

I had a 110 TLB on our property for a couple weeks 2 years ago and loved the machine, it just seemed a bit small for working in the fields. It also seemed to get stuck more often than I would like. I have a HD pickup with a large winch so I can pull things out easily, but its a pain to have to do often.

I just rented a 4720 with FEL and 5' heavy duty bush hog for 2 days. I thought the machine was nice but seemed a bit "light duty" We moved some rocks and heavy clay with the FEL and the FEL seemed to flex an awful lot. Also with a load of clay the FEL's hydraulic strength seemed inadequate - i was unable to do 2 functions at once. I was also suprised it wasnt more powerful. It couldn't maintain speed in the C range when going up hills from one work site to another - even on paved road caring only the bush hog and empty loader. I have pretty much ruled out the 4720, it just seems like its not designed for the heavy duty work i have in mind.

My biggest concern is HP and transmissions. I love the hydro transmission, but it seems the only machine that is beafy enough to do the loader work i want to do that has hydro is the TLB. Unfortunately the TLB seems pretty small for field work. So I really don't know what to do.

Any thoughts/advice/etc would be very very much appreciated. Please feel free to ask questions if i can do anything to clarify my needs / terrain.

Thanks so much in advance,

Ben

You may have a problem finding one tractor to handle all your requirements satisfactorily. You say that the TLB you drove seemed too small for handling your field chores. That should be the clue telling you to think about two tractors: a small utility tractor with hydrostatic transmisssion and 4WD (30-50hp engine) set up as a TLB; and a 100+ hp (engine) ag tractor set up to handle your large field maintenance implements.

I would check eBay for pre-owned tractors dating from the 80s or more recently with under 5000 hours.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Farmwithjunk is pointing you in the right direction, Ben...

Whoa! Maybe I am, Maybe not, but this much is for sure Roy, Now I need to go rest my eye's for a bit. Those emboldened letters just about sent me into a state of shock!

Thanks for the vote of confidence anyway!

 

[tractordk]

Hi,

Wow! lots of information to look through. Thank you all.

I spent the day in the yard working on a garden and contemplating my tractor tasks and needs. I think that the 2 tractor idea may be a good one. Possibly something in the 3720 range and another at the large end of the 5000 series.

I plan to look everyones replies over more thoroughly this evening and spend a some time thinking about this. I have two friends turning 30 today so have to take a little break from thinking about tractors. Ill be back on it later tonight.

Thank you all again,

Ben

 

[tractordk]

A few more Q's - is it a year round homestead? Bias towards new or used equipment? Do you want something to do - the hay renter may already have the capability to maintain the fields, add drainage, etc.. How many hours per week/mo/year do you anticipate working the land?

I agree with your observation that ag equipment is less robust compared to industrial hardware. They are designed for 2 different price points.

A skid steer could be configured to do your tasks, or a mix of ag & industrial if time is a constraint?

BarryinMN,

It is a year round homestead for now. It is likely that we may not spend much of the winters here, but certainly some.

I would like to go with new or nearly new equipment. We are a good distance from shops/dealers so I want to minimize mechanical problems.

Unfortunately our hay renter has been unwilling or unable to do any maintance for the previous 5 years - so i am giving up on that for now. We have had the same issue with our previous hay renters as well. It seems that we will need to maintain the fields to keep them in the condition we want.

Thanks,
Ben

 

[RoyJackson]

Whoa! Maybe I am, Maybe not, but this much is for sure Roy, Now I need to go rest my eye's for a bit. Those emboldened letters just about sent me into a state of shock!

Thanks for the vote of confidence anyway!

Yes, I've recently discovered the Bold and Font size buttons..I'm very happy now.

 

[BarryinMN]

Sorry for all the Q's but your wide variety of tasks is a candidate for multiple machines.

A skidsteer is low profile enough to squirt under overhanging tree branches around field edges, hydrostatic, cab heat A/C, all-wheel or track drive, and the big advantage - you can see the tool front edge and exactly what is going on. Tractors have that nose that gets in the way - large or small..

Anyway, a 5000 series Deere per FWJ makes sense and has a lot of flexibility. A cab has the option of a jump seat with seatbelt for taking helpers along. Just account for the infrastructure to support it - storage, fuel, normal maintenance, a method to haul it if needed, (dealer might include transport for warranty repair on the little guys - not the utilities & up).

An 8' bush hog might be a little small, a 10-15' will give you more reach along fencelines and field edges outside the rear tire wheel base.

Keep us posted on your deliberations.