Need help solving snow plow problem
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LD1
Epic Contributor
If its full time regen, you still have plenty of options.
1. Remotes
2. 3rd function off PB
3. diverter valve off the lift circuit
4. Get a different joystick valve that has both regen and std operation
4. A single DA cylinder
5. A second SA ram in parallel on only 1 side
Those last two mentioned, would depend on how your plow is designed as to how easy it would be to accommodate/modify. And would defeat the purpose of the Crossover relief
1. Remotes
2. 3rd function off PB
3. diverter valve off the lift circuit
4. Get a different joystick valve that has both regen and std operation
4. A single DA cylinder
5. A second SA ram in parallel on only 1 side
Those last two mentioned, would depend on how your plow is designed as to how easy it would be to accommodate/modify. And would defeat the purpose of the Crossover relief
LD1
Epic Contributor
NO fluid goes to the ram side of the cylinder when it extends, weather its regen or normal mode.
In order for a cylinder to extend, fluid has to ENTER the base, and LEAVE the rod side.
By pressurizing both sides, instead of the fluid leaving the rod end and returning to tank, it returns to the pressure stream and thus the base end of the cylinder, making it fill faster and cycle quicker.
Since the rod end of the cylinder has a smaller piston surface than the base end, equal pressure to both ports means the rod will still extend. because the force is simply PSI times the area of the piston in square inches. With the base end having more area than the rod end at equal PSI, it still extends.
So, instead of having to fill the entire cylinder bore full of new fluid as it extends, you are basically only need to add the amount of fluid that the rod displaces.
While regen makes the cylinder faster, it provides less force. Just rounding some numbers and throwing them out there, lets say your piston has an area of 4 sq inches, and the rod has an area of 1 square inch. PUSH force would be 4 sq inches times the PSI, lets say 3000. So 12000lbs push. Since the rod takes up 1 square inch that means the piston on the rod side only has an area of 3 sq inches, thus the cylinder would retract with 9000# of force.
If you pressurize both sides, they are thus pushing against eachother. 9000# trying to retract the cylinder, and 12000# trying to extend it, net result is 3000# of push force.
I have said it about as many ways as I can. Regen can be a hard concept for some to grasp. So I hope that helps you get a handle on it.
AS to why its used in case you were wondering....2 reasons
1. Speed. Tractors rarely have a use for a lot of force in the dump direction. But need larger cylinders for the retract or curl back power. So they use regen to speed up the cycle
2. To keep air out of the system. The rod gland seal is designed to keep fluid in and dirt out, but air can still be sucked in. When dumping a heavy load, it is possible for gravity to want to dump the load faster than the pump can keep it filled with fluid. So air gets sucked in around the gland seal. By using regen and pressurizing both sides of the cylinder, keeps the load under control dumping and keeps air from being sucked in.
Well, that was longer than I thought it was going to be, and probably lots more than you asked for. Hope that helps.
In order for a cylinder to extend, fluid has to ENTER the base, and LEAVE the rod side.
By pressurizing both sides, instead of the fluid leaving the rod end and returning to tank, it returns to the pressure stream and thus the base end of the cylinder, making it fill faster and cycle quicker.
Since the rod end of the cylinder has a smaller piston surface than the base end, equal pressure to both ports means the rod will still extend. because the force is simply PSI times the area of the piston in square inches. With the base end having more area than the rod end at equal PSI, it still extends.
So, instead of having to fill the entire cylinder bore full of new fluid as it extends, you are basically only need to add the amount of fluid that the rod displaces.
While regen makes the cylinder faster, it provides less force. Just rounding some numbers and throwing them out there, lets say your piston has an area of 4 sq inches, and the rod has an area of 1 square inch. PUSH force would be 4 sq inches times the PSI, lets say 3000. So 12000lbs push. Since the rod takes up 1 square inch that means the piston on the rod side only has an area of 3 sq inches, thus the cylinder would retract with 9000# of force.
If you pressurize both sides, they are thus pushing against eachother. 9000# trying to retract the cylinder, and 12000# trying to extend it, net result is 3000# of push force.
I have said it about as many ways as I can. Regen can be a hard concept for some to grasp. So I hope that helps you get a handle on it.
AS to why its used in case you were wondering....2 reasons
1. Speed. Tractors rarely have a use for a lot of force in the dump direction. But need larger cylinders for the retract or curl back power. So they use regen to speed up the cycle
2. To keep air out of the system. The rod gland seal is designed to keep fluid in and dirt out, but air can still be sucked in. When dumping a heavy load, it is possible for gravity to want to dump the load faster than the pump can keep it filled with fluid. So air gets sucked in around the gland seal. By using regen and pressurizing both sides of the cylinder, keeps the load under control dumping and keeps air from being sucked in.
Well, that was longer than I thought it was going to be, and probably lots more than you asked for. Hope that helps.
Dutch445
Elite Member
have you tried changing functions to see if you can work with it that way in the mean time?
swap bucket hoses with boom hoses?
i doubt regen is in the boom lift circuit.. only the bucket,,, ?
swap bucket hoses with boom hoses?
i doubt regen is in the boom lift circuit.. only the bucket,,, ?
LD1
Epic Contributor
No. Both sides would be the exact same force. If you Most snowplow rams are 1.5" diameter. Your tractor probably operates at 2500psi. So each ram can push with ~4400# of force. You put dual cylinders on the left side, when moving the joystick to the right, ALL 3 cylinders become pressurized, and you would be applying 8800# to the left side of the plow and 4400# to the right side of the plow. The net result is pushing on the left side with 4400# of force, and the plow will angle right.
When you move the joystick to the left, you are applying pressure only to the right cylinder, the "dual" cylinders on the left are open and free to return fluid to tank. So you would be pushing on the right of the plow with 4400# and it will angle left.
Didnt think of that this morning, but a simple option. Make sure the regen is on the lift circuit of the loader. Loader will lift much faster and with less power. So you would need to make sure that it can still actually make the lift. And even then it may be weak trying to push into a snowbank while raising at the same time. This option wouldnt cost anything to try out, but will be confusing to operate with fore-aft of the joystick controlling angle, and left-right controlling lift.
