Need help with shop design -design for expansion

[woodlandfarms]

So wondering aloud about a problem I am faced with. Been saving for a shop. Around 80 x80 minimum. 200k is a price point I have been given. Very modern in design. 2 story. Financial reality is it is two years away. But I have inherited a couple of shops worth of tools and find myself out of storage and work space.

Anyone have any thoughts on building smaller and adding? I don't want to as I fear loosing a lot of money when I expand on throwing out stuff I already built. Any designs that lend themselves to expansion. The contractor said that one wall in a steel building is easily removed but then I think about concrete and plumbing.

 

[jaxs]

I can't think of an eighty foot clearspan wall that would be easy to remove/move unless you can live with some columns in center when finished. Can you just build a dirt floor pole building for now then use it for something else when tools are moved out?

 

[prichard]

You want the 80 x 80 to be expandable or are you thinking of smaller and building out to 80 x 80? If the later what is the min start size? If the former what is max size?

 

[jfh28]

you really haven't given enough information to answer this well........whats the minimum size of what you want to build now.....stick frame, prefab metal or pole barn......2 story but is that clear height inside or two finished floors.........living space above or is that just storage.......minimum size of 2nd floor.........etc.......building a 40 x 80 now and extending with another 40 x 80 later is not a problem.....just have the gable end wall designed to be adapted.....means you would lose gable end framing and have to relocate the x-bracing.......concrete will just be a formed cold joint when you expand same as if you only do half a pour today and the rest next week so no big deal.....I would design the portion you are building now to contain all the plumbing so there would be no need to do anything with it on the extension......keep in mind that extending at a later date means that finish materials will not match as the older section will have faded some or as always the case with me the manufacturer will have discontinued that model or color ..............so it would be best to sit down and design the entire building as you want now with the intention of only building a portion now.....perhaps a t shaped layout or a lean to.........might be best to do some sketching now or sit down for a couple of hours with an architect........just a little pre-planning will minimize what you would be discarding when you expand.........Jack

 

[civilian]

I worked for an industrial manufacturing shop that was building an new shop. From the outside, the finished building looked like half of a building, ie, the ridge peak sloped to one side, not two sides. Thinking was, tear off the siding and build the rest of the building. If you follow, can you build half (40 x 80) or quarter (either 20 x 80 or 40 x 40) of your 80 x 80 future building? If only a quarter building, it could be the lower roof line or the higher one.

Don't know if this will come in from google maps: Google Maps

Just throwing out some ideas. Jon

 

[woodlandfarms]

Sorry, all. You know you write these questions late at night and they make perfect sense.

Max I can do is probably 40x40 financially.

I think there are two big questions for the group. What are the downsides of adding to an existing building (First off is siding, honestly never thougt of that one) but I wonder about concrete(how do I keep issues like water working up through seams in the floor) a well as truly joining roofing correctly so there is no leak.

Second, is there a cool / interesting shop design that lends itself to expansion? Nothing I have seen so far seems to be suited for expansion without being boring as heck.

The modern push is due to the new house we are working on. Just in final design stages but it is a modern / all glass afair.

 

[jaxs]

What you are looking for is an airplane hanger. They expand those things all the time. The key to it being able to move end walls. Hangers use sliding door systems that open the intire end/side of building.

 

[MossRoad]

80 x 80 is a huge square. Let's say you put wood working on one side and metal working on the other... and you forget a tool or your lunch on one side of the shop.... it's half a football field to walk over there and back. So do you want a center or quarter wall to divide it up a bit? Maybe shops along one side and storage on the other? A rectangle or smaller square lends itself better to expansion later. For example...

You have a 40 x 40 square.
You can make it a 40 x 80 later.
Then you can add another rectangle or square at a 90 degree angle and make it an L shape.
Or a T shape.
And later make it an F shape.
And an E shape.
Etc....
You just add 3 walls and a gable roof.

 

[Creamer]

Civilian's concept is what makes sense to me. Start with a 40x40 single slant roof and then your additions can go in either direction. If it is a steel frame building it should be no problem to move one wall when the time comes for expansion. This is especially true if you can live with posts at the peak when you are done. All you would be wasting would be a foundation in the middle of the floor you wouldn't need and cutting the longer sheets of steel shorter. It can be done with a free span as well but it would cost a little more.

I just put up a 40 x 60 all steel 16' sidewall for $50k so the 80 x 80 for $200k is very doable with a full foundation and concrete floor in all steel insulated.

 

[TimberHole]

Assuming you are talking about a pre-engineered building......the way to make it expandable is to use a rigid frame in the end wall you intend to expand. Typically, the end wall framing includes vertical x bracing to take the wind loads from the side walls. If you intend to expand, use a rigid frame at that location and you can just keep on going. I would also declare the final size of the building as it might affect the size of the horizontal x bracing and the size of the vertical bracing in the front wall. The skin on the rear wall that eventually expands can be reused at the time of expansion. Overall, I would guess a 10-15% premium on the first project.........not huge in the grand scheme of things.