need hyds help on a MF 261

[Soundguy]

Got a MF 261 in the shop with a loader. hyds are plumbed from a diverter plate on the hyd top cover with a manual selector valve on the plate... one line out to the loader spool valve, and one line back to the diverter plate.

Hyds pulse realy bad.. hoses shake... loader does lift.. but is slow.. Hoses pulse terrible when spool valve in neutral position.. under load , not so bad.

( almost sounds like in neutral, oil is having to go against a relief to get back to tank??? )

Our mechanic needs info on what's the next step to do... I understand that this has a belly pump.. etc..

There was some sediment in the washable strainer int he middle of the tractor.. etc.

Awaiting R&R procedure

thanks

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Sounds like possibly pump starving (ie internal filter/strainer clogged) OR internal relief failing. Also, take a long look at the loader's spool valve.

Switch the diverter to 3-point hitch mode (if it has that) and see how hydraulics function. That should eliminate or else pinpoint problem to spool valve.

Massey hydraulics are "strange" to anyone familiar with other brands. Forget 90% of what you've learned about other brands and go into this with ZERO preconceived notions. Always remember, an Englishman designed that system.

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks for the info.. we slapped a gauge on it last night and are only getting 500 psi from the tractor.. will be dropping the pump to check to see if it is starving.. but am thinking it might be relief... and yeah.. ditto on the weird hyds... I've driven the older mf's, and done minor repairs.... but never worked on the newer ones.

will post back with more info.

soundguy

Sounds like possibly pump starving (ie internal filter/strainer clogged) OR internal relief failing. Also, take a long look at the loader's spool valve.

Switch the diverter to 3-point hitch mode (if it has that) and see how hydraulics function. That should eliminate or else pinpoint problem to spool valve.

Massey hydraulics are "strange" to anyone familiar with other brands. Forget 90% of what you've learned about other brands and go into this with ZERO preconceived notions. Always remember, an Englishman designed that system.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks for the info.. we slapped a gauge on it last night and are only getting 500 psi from the tractor.. will be dropping the pump to check to see if it is starving.. but am thinking it might be relief... and yeah.. ditto on the weird hyds... I've driven the older mf's, and done minor repairs.... but never worked on the newer ones.

will post back with more info.

soundguy

Not sure on specific pressure of that tractor, but previous models in the same class were around 2400 to 3000 psi at relief stting. Usually around 2200 to 2400 normal operating pressure. MF pumps are notoriously low flow rates on older models. 100 series was just over 4gpm. Again, not sure what the 261 spec's at.

My #1 favorite MF mechanic at the dealer I trade with always told me "NEVER let anyone who's worked on IH or Deere hydraulics so much as touch a Massey". He says they'll screw it up EVERY time.

 

[Soundguy]

Not sure on specific pressure of that tractor, but previous models in the same class were around 2400 to 3000 psi at relief stting. Usually around 2200 to 2400 normal operating pressure. MF pumps are notoriously low flow rates on older models. 100 series was just over 4gpm. Again, not sure what the 261 spec's at.

My #1 favorite MF mechanic at the dealer I trade with always told me "NEVER let anyone who's worked on IH or Deere hydraulics so much as touch a Massey". He says they'll screw it up EVERY time.

Luckilly? ( unluckilly? ) our mechanic is predominately a heavy equipment mechanic.. most o fthe hyds he works on is straight forward stuff.. like on a cat or industrial JD.. just pumps and motors.. etc.

Will keep this thread updated with what we find.

I figure dthe psi was going to be somewhere near 2500.. etc. that seems to be a standard ag pressure for most 80's and up tractors.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Wayne County Hose]

My money is on a bad pump.

 

[Soundguy]

Update... we dropepd the pump out of the frame and took it to the table.

Wow.. amazing how similar this is to a ford N belly-pump. Guess ferguson liked that design. Has the same brass chamber inserts to ride the lobes on the shaft..

Problem ended up being the small piston rings were completely shot...

Just came in from the shop as the pump went back together..

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Update... we dropepd the pump out of the frame and took it to the table.

Wow.. amazing how similar this is to a ford N belly-pump. Guess ferguson liked that design. Has the same brass chamber inserts to ride the lobes on the shaft..

Problem ended up being the small piston rings were completely shot...

Just came in from the shop as the pump went back together..

soundguy

He liked the design because it was his prior to being fit to the Ford Ferguson. It's basically the same pump design Harry used in the Ferguson Black tractor in 1929.

 

[Soundguy]

He liked the design because it was his prior to being fit to the Ford Ferguson. It's basically the same pump design Harry used in the Ferguson Black tractor in 1929.

those guys didn't like to change things that worked back then.. and that basic scotch yoke pump design was fairly decent.. at least rugged anyway.

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

those guys didn't like to change things that worked back then.. and that basic scotch yoke pump design was fairly decent.. at least rugged anyway.

soundguy

Part of Harry Ferguson's "plan" was to use parts common throughout the range of models. He also demanded that a transmission used in an American built TO-20 would bolt right up to a rear end housing on a British built TE-20. When Ferguson and Massey Harris started trying to blend their manufacturing principals, there was much "butting of heads". Harry Ferguson finally just simply walked away. His plan was being ignored by old school management at MH.

November 19th of this year will be the 50th anniversary of the MASSEY FERGUSON name (and the triple triangle logo) There's a lot of history being published, especially in several British based collectors magazines. One of the bits is about the Ferguson TO-60 that never went into production. (Also known as the LTX. Larger Tractor Experimental) It was a 55hp blown up version of the TO35. There were 6 prototypes built and tested. It was lightyears ahead of anything on the market at that time. The engine , an in-house design, produced so much torque it literally ripped the lugs off of the rear tires available at that time when the tractor was ballasted heavy enough to make use of the power. The operations chief of the newly merged Massey Harris Ferguson company ordered all 6 scrapped, plus all the records, photos, and drawings were burnt. ONE picture survived. It's in this months edition of Antique Power Mag.