Need some advice on woodchuck rifle

[RobertN]

Have you read "Marine Sniper: One Shot, One Kill"? Great book about Marine Gunny Sargent Carlos Hathcock. He was an awesome shot.

He had a confirmed shot on a VC transporting weapons with a bicycle. He had taken his 8x Unertl scope from his sniper rifle, and placed it on a .50BMG. He sighted it behind lines. The VC he hit had weapons in baskets on his bicycle, and was moving. Hathcock took him down at a measured 2250 yards; 1.3 miles. At the time of that book(80's), it was the longest confirmed shot.

In regards to the older rifles, the old black powder rifles could place lead down range with great accuracy. A .50 cal with a conical bullet in a longer barrel is much more accurate than most folks would imagine. Many think the old muzzle loaders and early cartridge guns were inaccurate, but with good peep sights were really good shooters. They had to be kept clean, as the black powder can foul a barrel quickly.

The longer conical bullet had a resaonable coefficient for what it was. It was long, slow, and heavy. But, it was also very predictable. Consistency is key, and they are/were, so once sight settings were established, they could be repeated reasonable easy.

 

[RobertN]

I had a Mini-14 Ranch rifle for a while. With handloads, it easily ran sub-moa at 100 yards(scoped). Even with factory rounds, it did good. It would be a fine choice.

My only gripe was that it would fling brass 30' to the right; usually at the other shooters benches at the range /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Slamfire]

Tres Crows,
On a little hill top, with a Barret .50 nothing within a mile moves without your permission. That includes the armored Suburbans the ATF likes to ride around in. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Robert, I'll agree that black powder rifles are capable of amazing accuracy, but you really have to know the distance to the target. If you guess 1000 yards, and its only 975 the bullet will pass over the target about 25 feet high. if it is 1025 yards the bullet strike won't alarm many animals. Ok if you have a laser range finder, but during the blackpowder heyday, it was all by guess and by golly. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[RobertN]

Yes, black-powder does kind of lob them in; if you do not know the distance, then it is easier to miss high or low.

In the day, it was a bit of guessing. But, I think folks tended to be more in tune with thier rifle then, especially since one round really had to count.

The .50BMG is kinda like that at longer ranges, kinda lobbing it very predictably. That 750gr boat tail only leaves the muzzle at 2800fps, +/- a little. It is like a freight train though. Slow, but has a lot of momentum once it gets going.

 

[TresCrows]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Tres Crows,
On a little hill top, with a Barret .50 nothing within a mile moves without your permission. That includes the armored Suburbans the ATF likes to ride around in. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Robert, I'll agree that black powder rifles are capable of amazing accuracy, but you really have to know the distance to the target. If you guess 1000 yards, and its only 975 the bullet will pass over the target about 25 feet high. if it is 1025 yards the bullet strike won't alarm many animals. Ok if you have a laser range finder, but during the blackpowder heyday, it was all by guess and by golly. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif )</font>

Where does that 25 feet number come from. I tried to draw that out and it must be a magic bullet. Somehow I figure not everything was by guess and by golly. I don't think I would attempt 1000 yards with my Kentucky Long Rifle but at 100 yards I ain't doing much guessing and by gollying /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. It ain't much of a woodchuck rifle though but I suspect if were to hit one it would kill it dead. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif J

 

[RobertN]

The evolution of the rifle in the 1800's really made strides with veneer/tang(peep) sights, conical bullets, and improved barrels. The early Sharps really got the ball rolling, so to say.

The Kentucky rifles tended to be accurate over distance, but getting out a long ways would be harder. The tended to use only round ball, which is light and not particularilygreat in flight. Still, they could put pretty accurate fire down range.

The intro of peep sights made it easier to sight at longer distances. Even now, it's as close as you can come to the accuracy of a scope.

With the intro of the conical bullet, things stepped up a bit. It had a much better aspect ratio and coefficient. It was long heavy, and flew pretty well. That matched with peep sights made a nice combinatiion.

As to 25' of drop, would have to confirm in the reloading books. Isn't 30-06 like a 4-6' drop at 1000 yards? That with a 168gr at ~2800fps? A .50 TC Maxi Ball is 385 grains, and moves out about 1600fps.

I think shooters were more in tune with thier rifles then, and knew distances better. Snipers and match shooters do now too... But, more was dependant on your shooting when only one shot was readily available. That is generalizing for sure, but I think fairly on target /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[SPIKER]

actually ALL bulits drop at the same rate, as it is gravity dependant. (32.2f/sec sq. ) what changes is the velocity, if it travels faster then it will go farther before it drops but ut still drops at the same rate....

Boy I actually remembered something form school physics class! lol

Mark M

 

[TresCrows]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( actually ALL bulits drop at the same rate, as it is gravity dependant. (32.2f/sec sq. ) what changes is the velocity, if it travels faster then it will go farther before it drops but ut still drops at the same rate....

Boy I actually remembered something form school physics class! lol

Mark M )</font>

You deserve a gold star for that, even two /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

I have killed several deer with my Kentucky Long Rifle. It is a reproduction I built when I was a teen. My grandfather remade several of the parts on a mill so as to increase the authenticity. It shoots good. I shoot patched round balls, 45 caliber. Has a pretty hefty kick to it when loaded to max. It does have a percussion ignition--not authentic. Pyrodex powder.
Marblesoutdoors.com. They are one of the older hunting knife companies. I have one of their Ideal knives in the stacked leather, given me by my father when I was somewhere around 10yo. I just bought a new one the other day. I guess I had forgotten they still exist. Anyways, what made me think of them was that they sell old time peep sights and old fashioned compasses also. Go check them out for sure. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif J

 

[TresCrows]

Not a varmint rifle but here is a pic of the Kentucky Long Rifle. I think it is made after the Lehman type. I built this from a kit whn I was 15 or 16. It is on the bench here geting some cleaning. It shoots just fine. Not a very good pic but there she is. J