Need some bush hogging advice

[Hay Dude]

I agree. However, my 2 largest customers actually want an hourly rate for mowing (for their books, I assume). They know I'm more expensive than some others because my brush hogging looks more like I used a finish mower and have no problem when I have to raise my rate, which has happened only once in 5 years. I NEVER charge by the acre.

This is how ridiculous it is to compare mowing contractors by the hour:
Customer gets 3 bids on 20 acres. As we all know, no 2 mowing contractors mow at the same rate per hour.
1. “Harry” has an old John Deere 4020 gear tractor with a 15’ mower, the ideal mowing gear is 4th high and he doesn’t keep his blades super sharp.
2. Bill has a massey 7495 CVT with a 20’ mower and you can’t mow more than 3MPH. His mower has a baffle kit for improved cutting, but the radiator clogs frequently so he has to stop and clean radiator, increasing time.
3. Mike has a New Holland 8640 powershift with a 15’ mower and a mows at 3.5MPH. He goes over the job twice so it looks really good, so that takes more hours.

All charge “$100 per hour”.

How can any “non-farm” customer figure out who is giving them the best value for their dollar? How does the customer know how long it will take? What if the mowing contractor guesses and is way off? Whoopsie Daisies! He won’t be asked to come back and loses customer. If charging by the acre, how does the mowing contractor know the customer is being honest? What if it’s 25 acres and not 20?
By using my approach, you and customer know going into the job, exactly what it costs. There no quibbling about “hours” or acres”. Especially important with new customers. A contract is signed and theres no ambiguity.

That is a sound approach for estimating/quoting. I'm not sure the OP has enough experience to quote the whole project accurately. That's why I suggested they do it in "parcels" so they don't get too far over their skis.

If they bid the whole gob, there are 3 possible outcomes:

1. They lose their shirt (it takes waaaay to many hours to do the job
2. They come out about right (happy contractor, happy customer)
3. They make a killing

Right so 2 of the 3 outcomes bidding the “whole gob” as you call it (not by the hour), are good.
Only 1 is bad.

Remember the Meatloaf song? “2 outa 3 ain’t bad”?

 

[Hay Dude]

yes to above, bidding by job given OP's description & experience, very likely he'd lose his shirt. what works for Hay Dude may not be in the interests of those getting started. charge by the local hourly rate subject to change for OP from job to job.

What if 1/2 way through the job (working hourly), the customer comes storming out of his house and says “you’re working too slow! If you don’t work faster, you’re fired!”

Bidding by the job solves this problem.

 

[big bubba]

good point, although there are many "what ifs" for jobs like this. the OP & customer could sign a notarized contract prior. sounds like your business is well established & thought out. but as a novice to jobs like this, i would be reluctant to bid by the job
i definitely think in this case, the OP should have a signed waver reotential damage to the client's equip. best regards,

 

[BlueKnife]

This is how ridiculous it is to compare mowing contractors by the hour:
Customer gets 3 bids on 20 acres. As we all know, no 2 mowing contractors mow at the same rate per hour.
1. “Harry” has an old John Deere 4020 gear tractor with a 15’ mower, the ideal mowing gear is 4th high and he doesn’t keep his blades super sharp.
2. Bill has a massey 7495 CVT with a 20’ mower and you can’t mow more than 3MPH. His mower has a baffle kit for improved cutting, but the radiator clogs frequently so he has to stop and clean radiator, increasing time.
3. Mike has a New Holland 8640 powershift with a 15’ mower and a mows at 3.5MPH. He goes over the job twice so it looks really good, so that takes more hours.

All charge “$100 per hour”.

That makes perfect sense.....in those scenarios. We have a fourth scenario here.
4. Joe Newbie has no mower at all. The customer pays him to run theirs.

How can any “non-farm” customer figure out who is giving them the best value for their dollar? How does the customer know how long it will take?

It's the customer's machine. There's a decent chance he has at least some idea what it can do.

I'm all for bidding jobs by the job. It's how I do it the vast majority of the time. When I've been hired to operate someone else's machine, however, with none of my own on the job, either owned or rented, I've usually been paid by the hour or day. That's how it's generally done. If the OP's boyfriend and the customer want to work out a price for this whole job, that's great. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that of the customer though and it very well may bite the OP's boyfriend in the ass. We don't know for sure, but based on the few clues that we do have (the "contractor"'s girlfriend is asking bidding questions on a forum and the customer owns a brushhog) it would be a safer bet that the customer knows more about how long this job might take than the "contractor" does.

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

I have been a contractor for a few decades (IT) and yeah a different kinda business but the fundamentals are the same. Also before I started IT work I did this kinda work. Had a golf course one time contract me to do all of its woods and remove everything 3 " or less but leave the dogwood trees.

Look at the work as individual tasks. Taking out those 60 trees would take me X number of hours. Mowing the easy parts will take X hours.

Mowing the tricky parts where its slower X hours.

Hand working weed eating, edging X hours.

Factor in time for sharpening the bush hog's blades X hours.

The multiplier for those hours are the type of laborer and rate you would want to give them. Then add the amount you will need to pay in taxes on that income. They will most likely report that as an expense for deductions and you will be considered a 1099 (anything above $500 here is required to be declared) then add 10-15%.

A few other things on the equipment/job. You didn't mention if that tractor has a FEL? That can help tremendously in lifting/dragging logs to a containment area to cut em up.

Bush hog can maybe cut down 3" softwood trees with slow cutting. Who has to haul away the cuttings of those trees/weeds/brush? Can you put them in a burn pile? How good will it need to be cut down? Low enough to plant or leave stubble 2-3" tall.

Sowing grass after the fact? Fertilizing? Upsells, but something they may want/need done.

You may also be able to pickup a maint agreement from the person as even though the initial ground clutter will be gone it will still need mowing in the future. Most hardwood stumps will start pushing out young saplings in a year or so.

A forestry mulcher is a great option for them but at about $2500 or so per acre not a cheap one. Hope you get it.

 

[Hay Dude]

That makes perfect sense.....in those scenarios. We have a fourth scenario here.
4. Joe Newbie has no mower at all. The customer pays him to run theirs.

It's the customer's machine. There's a decent chance he has at least some idea what it can do.

I'm all for bidding jobs by the job. It's how I do it the vast majority of the time. When I've been hired to operate someone else's machine, however, with none of my own on the job, either owned or rented, I've usually been paid by the hour or day. That's how it's generally done. If the OP's boyfriend and the customer want to work out a price for this whole job, that's great. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that of the customer though and it very well may bite the OP's boyfriend in the ass. We don't know for sure, but based on the few clues that we do have (the "contractor"'s girlfriend is asking bidding questions on a forum and the customer owns a brushhog) it would be a safer bet that the customer knows more about how long this job might take than the "contractor" does.

Isn’t the OP also doing other things that don’t involve the customers equipment?

Taking down 60 pine trees? Cutting with a weed wacker/saw blade near buildings? Chain sawing? Maybe chipping the trees, branches, etc.

1. How do all those tasks fit into ONE hourly rate? Thats like saying “I’ll do carpentry, plumbing, electrical and masonry for $100/hour”.

I know this, I’d want different rates for all those different tasks. Running a weed wacker is a different pay than driving a tractor & bush hog-whether you own the bush hog or not.
Also….
2. The different tasks require different amounts of time, right? There might be 11 hours of bush hogging, 25 hours of tree cutting, 40 hours of weed wacking, etc.


It won’t fit to ONE “hourly” rate unless this is a customer who just wants to help this guy out and give him some work. If there’s multiple bidders, he’d have to be lucky to get the job at one hourly rate, or underbids it and the customer takes him based solely on underbid cost.

Even if he takes the work on an hourly estimate, the customer will be watching him constantly to make sure he’s working. An overall job bid allows him to do the work at a more comfortable pace and take the “pressure” off.

I really only wish the guy success, but everything becomes easier for him and the customer if he “internally” prices it all out per hour for all the different tasks, adds it all up and gives the customer a Proposal of overall cost.

 

[zzvyb6]

I always assume that these jobs will take 3X longer than an experience estimate. One flat tire from a thorn bush pretty much kills the job for a few days. Who's going to pay for that repair ? Plus, I dig up as many small pine trees as practical and use them myself or sell for $10 / ft.

 

[BlueKnife]

Isn’t the OP also doing other things that don’t involve the customers equipment?

We don't know. That wasn't specified by the OP. If he is doing those things with his own, or rented, equipment, then it would certainly make sense to bid those things.

 

[Hay Dude]

We don't know.

I do. The OP listed them.

That wasn't specified by the OP.

Yes, it very clearly was. Go look at post #1.

If he is doing those things with his own, or rented, equipment, then it would certainly make sense to bid those things.

Here’s the other things that have to be quoted separately from sitting on a tractor pulling a bush hog around.

 

[BlueKnife]

I do

Yes, it very clearly was.


Here’s the other things that have to be quoted separately form sitting on a tractor pulling a bush hog around.

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I meant that we don't know whose equipment is being used. She did not mention a chipper. She mentioned that they are "in the South so it's saplings and Small pine trees". I'm not sure what being in the south has to do with the size of the trees, but she seems to be implying with this statement that they're not dealing with anything of any significant size. She also mentions "fiskas" several times. I'm just guessing here but I'm thinking that "fiskas" might refer to the brand Fiskars. Fiskars makes a wide variety of gardening and yard care type hand tools, such as loppers, pruners, saws, axes, rakes etc. as well as crafting supplies, such as staplers, scissors and paper cutters. Given the context, I'm guessing we're talking about either loppers, pruners or possibly rakes. She mentions that the trees can "more or less be taken down with a chainsaw". Any tree can be taken down with a chain saw, so I really have no idea what exactly the "more or less" is about.

I say all this to point out, again, that we're talking about someone who is clearly very new at this. I say this, not to denigrate the OP or her boyfriend, but rather to point out that trying to help them bid a job of this size (20 acres of nasty brush is a big job for someone who is new to this and doesn't own or rent equipment) without more information is going to be extremely difficult or, more likely, impossible.