Need Water Well Advice, Please

   / Need Water Well Advice, Please #21  
Gadget,
I wouldn't give up on finding another well location. Ron posted about water witching and although there is no science to it, I personally found it worked and was astounded. The feeling of the two rods moving together is unmistakable. There were several places that resulted in the two rods moving together. The spot we picked had the most significant and strongest reaction.
You can go here to see how we did it. Click on the thumbnails and then on the "next" button if it is a slide show.
Water Witching
Also, don't overlook the higher parts of your property. You mentioned yours is shaped like a bowl. Our well driller suggested witching in the higher parts and he was right. Ours is a hard rock well so we were trying to locate fractures in the rock that carried water. There is no guarantee of the water quality nor the flow, but I can tell you witching worked for us.
You can go here to see the results of our well drilling.
Drilling the Well
 
   / Need Water Well Advice, Please #22  
Gadget:

Sounds like your land have a long history of problem wells. The odds are against you if you drill another one. But who knows... In your area up in Washington state, you should have plenty of rain right? Do you consider building a cistern and collecting rain water then treat it for domestic water usage? Whatever it costs, at least you know for sure you will get water. You will need a lot of luck drilling another well. Even you hit water, it may not be good water.

I also had a well drilled recently with only 2gpm. My well driller is also a water witcher. We hit water with 1/2 gpm at about 100 feet. At 200 feet, we got 2gpm and the static water level at 20 feet. Conventional wisdom tells me to go deeper hoping to get more flow. I told the well driller to continue drilling for at least another 100 or 200 more feet. At 230, he stopped, pack up his rig and went home. I didn't understand why.:confused::confused::confused: I insisted on having him drilling at least another 100 feet. He refuses. Later I realized he hit a dry fracture and we were losing water. If we went any deeper, we would hit a bigger dry fracture and lose all the weter. Anyway, the only damage were having the static water level dropped to 80ft. but I still got my 2gpm. All this was the water witcher/driller's feeling of a dry fracture below. Nothing scientific but I got to believe him. After all, he gave up the opportunity to earn a few thousand bucks.
 
   / Need Water Well Advice, Please
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Gosh, I'm extremely appreciative of everyone's input-- thank you for writing-- all you people with all these experiences I haven't had (yet!)

Generally speaking, I'm leaning towards the "sure bet" crowd here-- that is, investing in the certainty of cisterns+hauling or rain catchment or possibly treating the lake water supply to an acceptable potable level-- versus the hit or miss approach and risk of continuing to drill new wells.

Regarding the lake on our property, it is a private lake with seven acres of water, which we own entirely. I am told it is a basin from a watershed of 85 surrounding acres, and there are a couple of small inlet streams and one outlet stream, the flow rate of which we control. We use the lake principally for recreation, kayaking and and swimming in the summer. It had been stocked with trout five years ago and has many frogs, resident birds, etc. While swimming one notices distinct cold patches in the water, which I'm told might be upwellings of groundwater. I had the lake water tested for bacteria before I purchased the property and the analysis came back exceptionally clean-- the county said anything less than one thousand parts per million E coli was acceptable for swimming and the our lake water had three parts per million. The lake water appears clear (not cloudy) but medium brown in color, like tannin. We live in the rainy northwest and the lake stays nearly full all year, drops a few inches in the summer, not much and fills to overflowing with the winter rains.

I need to find out the county regulations-- I have heard that using rainwater catchment for domestic general use is not permitted in this county, though it is permitted in an adjacent even more rocky county. I have no idea but somehow I imagine the water department would also have a dim view of drawing/treating lake water for general domestic use-- don't get me wrong, I see all the viable reasons to do it, I'm just not sure it's permitted.

Don't forget, I do have another water source now-- the old 40 foot deep well that went dry in August of 2006 is flowing again but with arguably much more iron. When I purchased here, I began by putting in an elaborate water treatment system to improve this well's water quality, which was coming out at the house all murky brown and smelly. The former owners had invested about $12,000 of Kinetico components which when I arrived here had not been used or maintained in many years-- everything was set in bypass mode, as though that system had perhaps not worked well enough to even be worth maintaining. All that equipment was removed and an entirely new system based on three Water-Right, Inc. treatment units (ASC-1, IMTI-1054 (tannins), IMBF (pH) and a McClean unit to remove iron and manganese. In a new heated pumphouse I have a 1000 gallon above ground storage tank that stores treated water and a constant pressure demand pump system. Right now I am hauling city water, so the well pump is turned off and the whole treatment system is in bypass.

This treatment system was installed in July 2006 and operated only a couple weeks until the well went dry. From the beginning the new treatment system did not work very well. It definitely provided clearer water but never clear water. In an effort to extract peak performance from the system, the water treatment company set the system to backwash every night, which consumed hundreds of gallons of water and produced a sudden and enormous demand on the water well in the dryest month of the dryest year.

The treatment company said the water had been difficult to treat effectively because of a combination of precipated iron, or possibly iron having accumulated inside the pipe from the wellhead to the pumphouse a thousand feet away (we created a closed loop on the thousand feet of pipe and ran IronOut thru the loop for three days until it ran clear-- no improvement), or possibly because iron was getting through riding on the tannin. Perhaps as tlbusser suggested, Iron Related Bacteria could be a component, I don't know.

We left that well alone for seven months thru the rainy season and when we turned it on again in March of 2007, the well pumped very clear for about fifteen minutes, then pumped exceptionally red-brown for several hours afterwards. I ran the well at a small trickle for a couple days to see if it would clear and it never did. The water treatment guys took a water sample and said the measured iron was more than ten times what the level had been when the system had been designed a year earlier. I don't have the measurements right now, but he said my iron numbers were ten times greater than what my treatment system could handle. He said the only thing he knew of that might handle that much iron was a tall, sort of flushing ozone tower. He said that system would involve quite a bit of maintenance of removing the muck regularly.

After this discussion I am inclined to hire a second opinion on the existing water well-- because if this water could be treated effectively, that well might get me through most of the year, and if I only had to haul water awhile in the summer, that would be better than I have now.

Also, everyone's suggestion that I get a system of large cisterns for water storage-- that's kind of what my lake is right now. I can learn about the viability of treating the lake water. Someone had asked about our water consumption, we seem to go through about two thousand gallons of water per week and my monthly water bill from the city is about $30. The cost of water delivery is entirely the labor and equipment. Currently I'm hauling my own water with a utility trailer and two tanks plumbed together. We use point of use reverse osmosis systems for drinking water and ice at several locations.
 
   / Need Water Well Advice, Please
  • Thread Starter
#24  
hitekcountry-- thanks for input-- what water source are you treating with your ozone system-- is the source water already safe from bacteria point of view or is that what the ozone does? What offending elements are you removing and is there debris/byproduct to be disposed of? What maintenance is required of your system? Thanks.


hitekcountry said:
Seven acre lake- is it full of water all the time or does it dry up in the summer?

What feeds the lake- rain or stream?

What is the quality of the water in the lake?

What water treatment system do you have?

Realize that even sewer water can be cleaned up to the quality of drinking water.

You could put together quite an effective water treatment system for what it would cost to drill another well that you already know would be a big gamble.

I put together an Ozone system that works great. The Ozone equipment I purchased but the overall system is my design.
 
   / Need Water Well Advice, Please #25  
Gadgetnut,
Gee I feel sorry for you., You sure are having bad luck with your water issues. Might your neighbir be interested in selling you some water? You mihgt try that approach for a few years until you get up the energy to again tackle the issue. Gee all those homes around yu ahve water but not you? That ust be frustrating. Is there any chance of municipal water coming in any time soon?
 
   / Need Water Well Advice, Please #26  
Gadgetnut said:
hitekcountry-- thanks for input-- what water source are you treating with your ozone system-- is the source water already safe from bacteria point of view or is that what the ozone does? What offending elements are you removing and is there debris/byproduct to be disposed of? What maintenance is required of your system? Thanks.

All my water comes from two wells. The water has always tested satisfactory for levels of bacteria.

The problem with the water from my wells which is common in this area is that the water has a lot of different minerals in it. Unfortunately I never tested it to know exactly which minerals and quantities of each, but I didn稚 need to run any test to see the water was cloudy, and the clothes coming out of the washer would have what looked like rust spots/stains on them, the water smelled bad when you took a shower, and you would never want to drink it. At first I tried putting filters at the kitchen sink plus reverse osmosis and filters on the washer but all that was just a big PITA constantly changing filters.

Ozone is an oxidizer which is more powerful than chlorine and has many benefits over chlorine. Ozone equipment suppliers will include a CYA disclaimer statement in their websites that their equipment is not to be relied on to kill bacteria, and the reason for that I think (just my opinion) is because a poorly designed or maintained system could be ineffective and they don稚 want the responsibility. Since my bacteria levels are ok already, that痴 not a concern. What I wanted was to deal with the minerals and it does that very well.

One feature that was important to me to design into my system was minimal maintenance, the least often I had to deal with it the better. Ideally I should clean my filters every 4 month but I never get around to doing it that often and it works fine. The water is crystal clear and taste fine, although I still prefer the taste of bottled water.
 

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