Negotiating front end loaders ???

[schiker]

I am looking at a 60ish hp tractor JD, NH, and Kubota. Kubota has skid steer type attachment already JD,NH do not iirc.

One NH dealer I have visited likes to sell Bushhog brand loader instead of NH brand on thier tractors because they are cheaper and I assume because they are skid steer attachment compatiable. But I think financing is a bit different. 2nd NH dealer says skid steer attachment adapter is $300 more for NH loader. I have not asked the JD dealer specifically about this.

My question has anyone successfully negotiated for an aftermarket loader with skid steer attachment cheaper than tractor mfg loader equipment. Because it seems to me dealers order the tractor with mid mount valves mostly from factory and attach loaders at dealer anyway. /????

I think if I put enough money down to cover loader cost it will be a cheaper option. And since I am considering a good brand loader (Bushhog probably) I'll have an equivalent to mfg tractor with much more versatility for loader buckets and attachments.

And/or just how hard is it to install an aftermarket loader if I order the tractor with Midmount valve / joystick and quick connects from the factory installed.

Saving $1000 appeals to me and I can do some work myself if its just bolt up.

 

[gamble77]

Not sure which system NH uses, but I personnaly think that the standard JD setup is much easier to use than the skid steer type attachment. Now if you already have skid steer attachments then that is the obvious way to go. I doubt you will find someone to quote you cheaper for a skid steer attachment loader if that is not "standard" configuration.

 

[Kendall69]

Essentially, your “paying” for the loader with the deposit, so it would not effect the tractor financing etc, as it’s a separate sale.

A dealer should not have a heart burn if the are a dealer for the bush hog, and even if they are not, and you get it via the internet and have it shipped to the dealer, the dealer will get the tractor sale and make money on the install of the loader. Unless the dealer plays hardball, which I don’t see happening, your being fair enough to him, and giving him money after all.

Personally I wouldn’t have a loader without the skid steer attachment, why I waited so long to do mine I will NEVER know.

On my new tractor I will START with the skid steer attachment and work backwards from there.

 

[BarryinMN]

Not sure on your specific tractor, but mine had several substitutions including a different (longer) oil tube & dipstick.

Another consideration for DIY is the loader is ~2K lbs. you will need lifting & positioning abilities to mount it.

Most of the rest is positioning & bolt up some allen bolts are over 300 ft lbs torque.

Try & acquire the loader installation manual - you may not be saving anywhere near the $1K in initial cost differential. There may be cut & grind fitup, generic loader frame may hang low to fit, but also reduce ground clearance.

I think the new JD QT is euro style: to change attachments throw the spring loaded lever before getting on the tractor, curl the arms & drop the attachment go pick up the new attachment curl back & the pins spring lock in place.

SS requires getting back off the tractor to lock down the pins on the second attachment.

 

[schiker]

I can't see the JD, NH, or any other bucket attachment being any real significant advantage in ease. The more I look into it and read ....the skid steer attachment looks PLENTY simple and the availibility of buckets and accessories FAR FAR FAR outweighs any and all brand loyalty for me. Why standardize the 3 pt hitch and not option the front similarly. For this size tractor...Today (and for the last several years) seems a brand mfg quick connect seems to not making any sense to me other than proprietary greed!!!

 

[gamble77]

I suggest actually trying them...I have broke three skid steer "locks" since I have been selling tractors, the only thing to "break" on the JD system are $0.50 clip pins...again, just my opinion.

 

[schiker]

Yeah I thought about moving the big hunks of steel after I posted. Probably a little beyond me w/o having another tractor with front end loader or hoist. A second tractor I don't think would be a problem. If my old tractor wasn't so ratty I might try it with my boom pole. NOT knowing any better I would think bushhog would be bolt up and no real clearance issues requiring grinding or fitment? The dipstick is a good point. Thanks.

Going to have to shop the front end loader a little more.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I suggest actually trying them...I have broke three skid steer "locks" since I have been selling tractors, the only thing to "break" on the JD system are $0.50 clip pins...again, just my opinion.

The JD system on the 400 and 500 series loaders couldn't be easier to use, and it's included in the base price (no add-on unless you require the alternative skid-steer system). The JD system is simpler and more secure than the universal skid steer. Go read on the Kubota forums about problems with buckets coming off because the locking arms didn't throw quite far enough. Imagine a full bucket coming off on one side and not the other - very bad for your loader arms (as one owner of an M95S attested to).

IMHO the only downside to the JD system is that only JD uses it. However, many aftermarket attachment makers can make you a FEL attachment setup for JD type attachment for the same price as universal skid steer.

 

[schiker]

I will look into it but for me I don't see breaking either system for this size equipment (in an apples to apples quality attachment and normal usage). Being able to find a deal on grapple, root bucket, etc would pay for some inconvienance in bucket hook up.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Go read on the Kubota forums about problems with buckets coming off because the locking arms didn't throw quite far enough..

That issue was fixed with a simple shim kit. it can happen with all universal mount plates though, especialy if you get dirt between the loader and attachment. The universal mount is far from perfect, but 95% of loaders and implements support it. Its pretty tough to come by Euro implements. Its like buying a non-standard 3pt hitch... ?! We do sell a few Euro loaders, but I don't think I'd want one for myself.

Back to your real question though on saving money with aftermarket loader. You often can, but is usually just a few hundred $$, not a dramatic difference. Really, I see more people replacing New Holland loaders with more expensive ALO products because they are stronger.

 

[Z-Michigan]

That issue was fixed with a simple shim kit. it can happen with all universal mount plates though, especialy if you get dirt between the loader and attachment. The universal mount is far from perfect, but 95% of loaders and implements support it. Its pretty tough to come by Euro implements. Its like buying a non-standard 3pt hitch... ?! We do sell a few Euro loaders, but I don't think I'd want one for myself.

Just to clarify, I wasn't attacking Kubota, but rather the "universal skid steer" design in general. Not sure who invented it, but I don't think it was Kubota.

Also, the standard JD quick-attach sold on the 300, 400 and 500 series JD loaders is not the Euro quick attach. I've never even seen the Euro quick attach in person; I don't know if it is standard on any JD, but I think it is standard on some of the larger NH/IH farm loaders. The standard JD quick attach is amazingly simple, doesn't have much to break, and is no more effort to use than the universal skid steer - in fact actually less effort if everything is properly aligned, because you don't need to put any force on the handles of the USS system, instead you just insert two linchpins and you're done.

 

[rback33]

To counter Neil somewhat, the Euro Style is standard on the higher HP ag stuff. It is far superior to the skid steer style. Around 60 HP is where you run into people causing their buckets to jump off. FWIW we can supply Euro style Pallet forks, bale spears and buckets to people wanting them.

 

[LoneCowboy]

I've been using skid steers and QA skid steer buckets for nigh on 20 years now (how did that happen? man I'm old) and the only way for it to fall off is for YOU to not put it on correctly.
That's why when you put the bucket on, you should run it up and turn the thing completely over (empty the bucket), if it stays on, you put it on correctly, if not, well, it didn't have far to fall.

And the whole euro style QA is a whole solution in search of problem. Yo, we've got it, it works fine, and all the attachments are made in this one way, why would any manufactuer want to do it the other way? (or both?)
stupid, get the regular QA, not any proprietary system.

 

[schiker]

I am having a hard time with the proprietary QA being that much stronger and better for this size tractor or anything under maybe 80-90 hp. Bigger Ag stuff I concede.

Bobcat rates their bigger equipment at 90 ish HP. Just thinking a skid steer with tracks, heavy bucket, and construction equipment abuse seems to have worked ok for a lot of units and attachments. To me a 60ish hp farm tractor would be NO sweat for the SS attachment mechanism. Again assuming quality attachment and proper fitment.

My nephew has a JD 320 Skid steer. I called him and he says he thinks its a standard Skid Steer attachment mechanism and he hasn't had any significant problems. Tractor data says JD 320 SS is rated at 66 hp. JD and NH seem happy enough to sell the skid steer quick attach mechanism adapter hmmm.... makes me go huh why get a proprietary attachment loader besides brand loyalty. I concede maybe a tinsy bit quicker attachment. But by the time you get off to double check connection and general safety check you can finish the SS attachment anyway.

 

[BarryinMN]

Well, my Zetor is 62 hp and what I did was buy - no plate - heavy duty SS rock bucket/grapple, forks, snow bucket, etc. Then welded on the Euro plates @ $80/pair. The NH and Massey dealers here both have Euro attachments scattered around their lots. Now I understand JD has switched on new machines but will install their old style mount on customer request to match customer's old attachments.

I did not have a SS at the time so it did not matter to me. The dealer took care of the details and in fact I have not needed any new loader attachments since the tractor purchase in '04. The QT lock is visual from the cab. If the attachment is not locked the yellow handled lever does not rotate. No need to climb out of my heated and air conditioned "office".

Now I did buy a JD SS this year and it is 33 hp so all my attachments are smaller scale 54" & 60". The largest attachment is a 78" landplane. I can park the SS IN the 96" larger tractor snow bucket.

I used the SS initially to pick small rocks that the large tractor nose blocked seeing the leading edge. My larger tractor rock bucket could be picked up by the SS 1200 lb operating lift, but I would have no working capacity.

Main problem with a SS attachment is the tools multiply like rabbits. I have to pour more concrete to park these tools & keep 'em out of the dirt.

 

[john_bud]

You really aren't beefing around 2000# of weight when you are putting on a loader. Each individual part of the subframe won't be that heavy. You may need a floor jack and possibly a engine hoist that can be rented for 25-50 bucks. I would imagine that if you have a helper you might not even need the floor jack. The loader frame is heavy and to position it up will require an engine hoist. You could even use a chain fall and a tree branch. Although, it may be do-able with only a helper. After all, you're just picking up one side, so you're only lifting at max 1/2 the frame weight. You can call the Bushog company and ask tech help about any custom fit-up requirements for you model loader / tractor combo. (That's the slang for having to bend, cut, grind, drill or pound something to make it fit.) There may not be any needed - call and ask.

I've installed a 3000# lift loader with the aid of just the engine hoist (no helper). It isn't rocket science, simple hand tools and / or an impact wrench and a tube of lock-tight 271 for the frame to tractor nuts & bolts.

However, the dealer can probably get the loader and install it for not much more than you can get the loader as they are a higher volume buyer and will have the shipping cost diluted across more pieces. You may only be saving a few hundred - is that worth it for a 1/2 day's labor fitting "tab A into Slot B"?

jb

 

[DavesTractor]

To counter Neil somewhat, the Euro Style is standard on the higher HP ag stuff. It is far superior to the skid steer style. Around 60 HP is where you run into people causing their buckets to jump off. FWIW we can supply Euro style Pallet forks, bale spears and buckets to people wanting them.

rback33, could you post a picture of a Euro quick attach?

 

[rback33]

As per Dave's request. See Attachments.

The triangle guides on the top of the QA make sure you pick up the hooks on the attachment. Once you pick it up, you trip the handle and the two rods at the bottom of the QA snap into the holes at the bottom of the bucket. As implied, this is the Standard European attachment method. All ALO-Quicke Ag Loaders (OEM for most of Big guys now except for John Deere) are this style. On some (and our biggest one) the handle is self-tripping when you roll the attachment back so you do not have to get back out and lock it in.

 

[EFC]

With an identical markup our aftermarket loaders (either Frey or Koyker) are 38% to 40% cheeper than our OEM's.

Buck

 

[rback33]

With an identical markup our aftermarket loaders (either Frey or Koyker) are 38% to 40% cheeper than our OEM's.

Buck

Hey you! What are you doing in such open waters? I almost called a while back, but I forget why....