Neighbor's new septic over prop line

[ericinmich]

Quick comment on an encroachment that was in a sub. that we used to live in... apples and oranges, but the court result may apply.

A shady builder put up a house that was about 5 feet into a 10 foot setback. The house was turned from what he submitted so one corner was in 5 feet, but the other one was about right. It wasn't caught by anyone, and the house was completed (about a year). Then it was caught...

Many lawsuits from the neighbor, the association, etc.

In the end, the guy had to put up a bunch of full grown pines to block the side, and had to deed over probably three or four times as much land in the back side of the lot to the neighbor.

The court obviously ruled that making him move the house or tear it down was not practical, etc...

Of course in this case it's not 100K's to tear down the house, but maybe some big pines and some property would make it go away...

 

[hockeypuck]

Making the neighboor pay for some nice pines on your property sounds like the best idea I have heard, if it is going to get rolled up into court. It maybe a way for both of you to save face and money.

Puck

 

[CurlyDave]

Depending on how easy to find the existing monuments are, you might be very well advised to have your own survey done before your neighbor has his done.

I once had a property line dispute with a neighbor, and fooishly thought that a surveyor would be more or less neutral. Nothing could be further from the truth. A surveyor always gives the "benefit of the doubt" to the one who is paying him.

In my instance, the surveyor put down stakes at least 5' on my side of the true property line & then the neighbor sued me. His survey cost $1000. Fortunately, my insurance company picked up the tab for a different survey, but it was very difficult to find a surveyor who would put down new stakes at variance with a recent survey. The new survey cost my insurance company $14,000.

If you don't want to lose some land, you need to get your own survey done...

 

[MikePA]

A surveyor always gives the "benefit of the doubt" to the one who is paying him.

If you don't want to lose some land, you need to get your own survey done...

'Always' is not true. I know plenty of surveyors, and also worked for one, who tried hard to determine what the true lines were, regardless of who paid them.

 

[Seat_Time]

Me again...
Those wooden stakes are/were hammered in by my neighbor. The property line isn't so much in question...there's really no dispute over that (currently). I have a survey from my initial purchase of the property that shows this boundary; I had this same survey company come back last year to reflag one of the mid points, reflag the corner, and add another midpoint along this same line, as I wanted to make sure I didn't encroach with an intended new property line fence. The "corner" is actually right on top of a large boulder: you'll note the stake in the foreground is right next to this boulder...the true "pin" is a drilled hole in the boulder with an "X" and then spray painted. The next stake in the pic is about half way down the mound: this is new over the weekend and was put in by my neighbor using line of sight from the corner to my surveyor's mid point - which is behind the brush and a little hard to see from the angle of the picture. My neighbor put this other stake in to show that he had "cleaned up" the "over the line" portion of the slope of the mound such that it wasn't over the property line anymore. Fine...but the system is still way inside the 10 foot set back requirement. So, here is where township comes in - do they grant him a variance or not/ I believe that will depend on whether they think this was an honest mistake. I don't know, but my guess is the system was permitted and enigineered to be properly set back and the contractor goofed. Still, we haven't (nor has my neighbor) even addressed the other property line he breeched. Remember, I own alongside and behind his lot. This mound system is built right at the inside corner. My neighbor has shown absolutely no effort to remedy the slope that is over this other line - setback notwithstanding.

 

[tlbuser]

Depending on how easy to find the existing monuments are, you might be very well advised to have your own survey done before your neighbor has his done.

I once had a property line dispute with a neighbor, and fooishly thought that a surveyor would be more or less neutral. Nothing could be further from the truth. A surveyor always gives the "benefit of the doubt" to the one who is paying him.

I think this comment is written without merit and is a "slap in the face" to the civil engineering community as a whole. Are mistakes sometimes made, yes, but to say that everyone involved is only after a paycheck is a mistruth.

 

[Paddy]

In defence of Curly Dave. I had a friend that had a line dispute. Both of their deeds had descriptions that over lapped the others. Oddly enough, my friends land was formally owned by our county surveyor! The error was 50'. In old parts of the country, there are many errors. As grand dads 100 ac are cut one pc at a time, it can result that the last pc has a siginicant +/- factor. So when my friends owner to the North had their survey, you bet they ploted it to their decription. Again, oddly enough, their surveyor was also a formal county surveyor.

So I belive what Cury Dave has said, both descriptions need to be reviewed to see if there is a conflict, otherwise the person writing the chech will have Their description marked. This is not a slam on the industry. There is a big diff between marking lines for one pc of property and finding errors amung all ajoining pc. The point you made "Mistakes are made". They are, or beter defined as were made many years ago.

 

[zeuspaul]

I do not know of ANY surveyor or civil engineer who would favor the position of a property line based on who is paying the bill or for any other reason. Unethical behavior is grounds for losing a license and ANY surveyor/engineer engaged in such activity should permanently lose their license. Nor does a surveyor/engineer use solely a description provided by an owner to indicate a property line between two owners. Public records are used. Owners may be interviewed for knowledge of historic property lines. It is unlikely that there are two descriptions generated at the same time for the same property. Generally the earlier property transfer and description would prevail.

Mistakes are made, controlling old monuments may be left undiscovered, judgement calls may vary when there is conflicting evidence. If a property line is not clearly defined a judge is the final arbitor.

If a property line were improperly identified and a leach field were built with an improper set back based on the survey, the surveyor/engineer would most likely pay to move it. What surveyor/engineer would want to take on that expense??

 

[Paddy]

Zeuspaul,

I see you are a surveyor. Are you saying you have not seen where two adjoining properties descritions come from diff starting points and there is an overlapp? And if you were called out to mark a properties corners based on their recorded deed, you whould do just that. Or do you automaticly review all surounding description to insure there is no overlapp? I do not consider it unethical behavior for the serveyor to mark the corners has his customers deed reads. If he is told, "there is a dispute between where the line is" and you place it in the favor of the customer, that's another story.

In our hills and hollers, over lapping lines happens all the time. Not to long ago, there was a pc in the news where there was a few foot "Extra". It became a joke and was autions off on E-bay. Considering when the sections were first marked, there pretty close.

I make no judgements against surveyor's diffacult work.

 

[zeuspaul]

Senior deeds must be reviewed. There can be many reasons for overlaps. A surveyor does not survey a property in a vacuum ignoring the adjacent property. Laws and precedents vary by state.

No you can't mark a *property line* based on a specific deed if you don't believe it to be a *property line* as a *property line* is just that. It is a line between TWO owners. You could mark a *deed line* if someone requested it but you could not call it a *property line* if the deed were in error or there were a senior deed indicating the property line in a different location. If you are asked to survey a property line you have to do adequate research. One has to mark the property line based on an understanding of the laws in your state.

You could mark a *line* and describe it as the line called out in such and such deed. It may or may not represent a *property line*. Ambiguity should be avoided so I doubt you would find many surveyors that would monument a line near a property line known to be in error. More likely the questionable line would be marked with temporary markers for informational purposes only.