New 1 Ton P/U on the Market. Sterling Bullet

[patrick_g]

The Dodge or Freightliner Sprinter is a Mercedes Sprinter, which is the same as the Volkswagen LT, or as it is called since the 2006 generation, the Volkswagen Crafter. Volkswagen sells them with their legendary 2.5 TDI engines from 100 to 174 hp

I assume you guys in America only get the 318/518 versions with 3 liter V6 in it.. In Europe they start at the 309/509 CDI with only 90 hp...

Renze, Thanks for the details and European insight. I had no clue except my heat and air guy bought one a few years back and has told me about the terrific mileage and how nice it performs. They still love it. For them it is enclosed storage with less security concerns and way better maintenance profile than any of their pickups. I never knew anything about their actual HP or torque or red line but based on what it does in the van it should be a super engine for a Jeep in whatever version it was in their van.

Pat

 

[QRTRHRS]

I have a 2006 ram with the ISB - it weighs around 1000lbs, I think. What are the maintenance issues relating to engine weight?

I was doing some calculations last night and it looks like in a 3/4 ton, with the 2007 diesels running close to $8000 total over the gas engine, the fuel savings at $3/gal will pay off in about 6 years, based on 18,000 miles/year (what I drive). I made a bunch of assumptions and if you change those the payoff could be 3 years or 10 years or whatever. Regardless, that's a pretty long time. It would be faster if prices go up, slower if prices go down. I think a lot of people just don't like the thought of driving something that gets 10mpg, even if financially they would be as well or better off doing that instead of paying for the diesel. OTOH, having now trailed a 3-horse gooseneck with a diesel, I would never go to gas if I could help it - the diesel is so effortless in pulling that load even through mountains. But if you aren't pulling something heavy, the diesel probably doesn't make as much sense.

But for lighter vehicles, if the diesel option cost $1000-2000 instead of $8000, the payoff might be a lot faster.

Mostly tire wear even though I have used the specs that have been on the TDR website for the Gen II Ram for a long time. Off the top of my head though, at 200k, I have replaced the ball joints twice on the right and several tie rod ends. Could be that I see more wear due driving on country roads for the most part. I know Dodge has tweaked the front end over the past few years so perhaps it is a non issue now.

I whole heartedly agree that if you do use your truck then the diesel makes sense even to the point of being the cost of doing business.

 

[Renze]

Renze, Thanks for the details and European insight. I had no clue except my heat and air guy bought one a few years back and has told me about the terrific mileage and how nice it performs. They still love it. For them it is enclosed storage with less security concerns and way better maintenance profile than any of their pickups. I never knew anything about their actual HP or torque or red line but based on what it does in the van it should be a super engine for a Jeep in whatever version it was in their van.

Pat

Patrick,

Its funny to see than American made pickups only sell in Europe for bragging rights. An open pickup is very scarce, you will only see them at municipalities for the folks that pick up trash and hoe the public flower beds.
Allmost anybody uses enclosed vans in Europe, with various chassis lengths and height options.

Do you guys get the Sprinter as a single or dual rear wheel version ?
The single wheeled version is the 3,5 ton version and the dualled is a 5 ton.

At the company i work, we build trailers and convert Sprinters to 5th wheel tractors, which can be driven with small drivers license. Last week we converted a single 3,5 ton to a 5 ton by replacing the leaf springs with those from a 5 ton vehicle that was fitted with aftermarket air suspension.

 

[patrick_g]

Patrick,
Do you guys get the Sprinter as a single or dual rear wheel version ?
The single wheeled version is the 3,5 ton version and the dualled is a 5 ton.

I have only been up close to just the one my heat and air guys have but it was SRW. I don't think I have seen a dually on the road. The UPS (United Parcel Service, the guys dressed in brown driving brown trucks and constantly double parking illegally to save time)) used to use 1 1/2 ton trucks for their local delivery runs but look to have been converting to the Sprinter which looks taller and more narrow. UPS doesn't do things for appearances or by accident or based on wishful thinking, just long term gains so they must be happy with their initial Sprinters as they seem to be getting more and more of them.

There are companies here in the states that make RV conversions out of the Sprinter but they seem to be a bit pricey. At least they have decent standing headroom which is often lacking in many RVs. (I'm 6'2" and hate crouching down like a troglodyte for very long.)

Pat

 

[Renze]

patrick,

Over here, a 3.5 ton sprinter has a GVW of 3.5 ton, or 5 ton for the dualled version, which is 300 kg heavier and has a heavier frame from 3mm box sections instead of 2mm box section.
The 3.5 ton Sprinter would weigh 2000 kg so the payload would be 1.5 ton i guess.

They told me that a Ram 2500 is a 3/4 ton pickup... does that really mean that a 3 ton weighing beast can only carry a 750 kg payload ?

We get a lot of UPS delivered goods at our company. UPS has the basic 309 Sprinter with 90 hp 2.2 liter 4 cylinder, with an automatic transmission.

at http://www.dodge.com/en/2007/sprinter/ i see that you guys get both the 3.5 and 5 ton GVW versions.

They look kinda cool with that dodge chrome, i think we should stick that onto one of our rentals, just for bragging rights !


I also see that you guys get a 8400 kg total tow weight with the auto transmission, where we can only get 7000 kg CGVW on the automatic, and 8750 kg on the manual transmission.

 

[patrick_g]

patrick,


They told me that a Ram 2500 is a 3/4 ton pickup... does that really mean that a 3 ton weighing beast can only carry a 750 kg payload ?

Yes the 1500 is a half ton the 2500 is 3/4 and the 3500 is a 1 ton. In some other brands, say Ford, the numbering is different but follows the same general scheme. F-150 is 1/2 ton, F-250 is 3/4 and the 1 ton is a F-350.

Don't forget a "ton" in the US is 2000 lbs not a metric ton which is 1000 Kg or about 2200lbs.

I have a 1997 Ram 3500 4x4 with Cumins diesel and it is rated for 11,000 lbs gross wt. I also have a 2008 Ford F-250 4x4 with diesel engine and full crew cab but short bed.

Like everything else in the measuring world, the US is arcane at best (more like byzantine in the labyrinthine meaning) in its P/U truck ratings. I'm not sure what the 1/4, 1/2, and 1 ton ratings currently refer to or when they referred to something close to the name. As the philosopher once said, "it is like having a swarm of bees buzzing in your head... but, well there they are."

There are 1/2 ton trucks in one brand with a GVWR that equals or exceeds the rating of a 3/4 ton in another brand (easily found if you allow different years to be compared.)

I make no defense for this mess and think it is abysmal but then I started out in physics and mathematics with either meter kilogram seconds or centimeter gram second systems and suffered with the "English" system only as I had to do so. Poundals anyone? Velocities in furlongs per fortnight or weights of materials in stones per rod? 16 ounces per pound, 12 inches per foot, 3 feet in a yard, 16 1/2 feet in a rod, 5280 feet in a mile, 6 feet in a fathom and what about leagues and.... what a bunch of twisted garbage for a measuring system.

Oh to be metric! Don't you love it? We inherit the "English" system of weights and measures from the British who we fought to the death to be separate from and later they go metric and we cling to the old antiquated second hand English system like it was Holy Writ! carved in stone like a foot note on tablets from Mt. Ararat!

Want a chuckle? Go here ==> http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/inches.html

Pat

 

[dgl24087]

Patrick,

Its funny to see than American made pickups only sell in Europe for bragging rights. An open pickup is very scarce, you will only see them at municipalities for the folks that pick up trash and hoe the public flower beds.
Allmost anybody uses enclosed vans in Europe, with various chassis lengths and height options.

Do you guys get the Sprinter as a single or dual rear wheel version ?
The single wheeled version is the 3,5 ton version and the dualled is a 5 ton.

At the company i work, we build trailers and convert Sprinters to 5th wheel tractors, which can be driven with small drivers license. Last week we converted a single 3,5 ton to a 5 ton by replacing the leaf springs with those from a 5 ton vehicle that was fitted with aftermarket air suspension.

I've seen a dual rear wheel Sprinter, I think it was in Freightliner configuration.

 

[jayhaitch]

Renze: we spent our honeymoon in Suisse, uh Schweiz, um Svizzera, oh ya, Svizra, arrgh, Confederatio Helvetica, errrrr Switzerland! (With 4 official languages and the oldest democracy in the world, why can they stay together, yet in Canada half of French Canadian's want to separate, but, I digress) I loved Switzerland, so much, I promised myself on my first trip if I ever got married, I'd honeymoon there. So, both happened. My wife had never been to Europe. Hugely expensive trip, but this was in 1995. I know what happened with the introduction of the Euro in the rest of Europe

Anyway, the free airport shuttle bus in Zurich was a Renault van. I found it interesting how many small, tall, 4 cylinder vans there were, mostly manual transmissions, very low geared and high revving. I understand the rationale for the size (narrow old city roads, congestion, etc) but curious why European truck engines are beaten-on small ones, as opposed to the North American style of lower revving big engines. Funny tax laws? Small chassis' can't hold big heavy engines? How big are the biggest transport trucks in Nederland? What are the heaviest on road trailers they tow?

 

[jayhaitch]

patrick g: your loquacious erudition and sardonic physical numerology gave me a stomach ache......from laughing so hard. Love it!

I've printed the link in your post, and will happily distribute it to my arcane imbibing colleagues.

 

[mjncad]

I agree with you Patrick_G concerning our stupid measuring system and I made my living for 24+ years using it.

Now let's give Renze more reason to laugh at our system of measurement. A 3/4" pipe is actually 1.050" in outside diameter, a 1" pipe is actually 1.315" in outside diameter, a 3" pipe is actually 3.5" in outside diameter; and this silliness continues up through and including 10" pipe. When you get to 12" pipe, it is actually 12" in outside diameter, and so on. Of course the inside diameters vary widely too depending on whether it is SCH10, SCH40, SCH80, SCH160, XS (eXtra Strong), or XXS (eXtra eXtra Strong or Double eXtra Strong).

This generally holds true for electrical conduit too since rigid conduit is based on pipe; but with smoother interior walls to protect the wire being pulled through it. Of course EMT (Electric Metallic Tubing) has its quirks too with 1/2" Trade Size not being a true 1/2" in diameter.

Then if you want more foolishness, check out structural shapes, primarily Wide Flange beams...that will give you some laughs when you look at the nominal sizes and actual sizes.