New Agco Sub-Compact and "B" Versions are out now

mark777 · Oct 31, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Model for model, are they cheaper, or more expensive?? I mean surely they wouldn't be cheaper as they would be cutting their nose off....??

What about after the sale? Are warranties, maintenance and service techs the same? How about the Agco line brought to a MF dealer for service and warranty work?

I can imagine (you being on the inside) that the problems could be a nightmare.

While searching for AC 5020 parts, the most help I received was from a MF parts man who was limited by the Agco inventory. He was confident that the parts were out there, but the Agco software limited his search by not listing NOS. He even did a nationwide search with very limited results...He blamed Agco for no longer supporting the older Allis Chalmers.

Mark

JerryG · Oct 31, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Model for model, are they cheaper, or more expensive?? I mean surely they wouldn't be cheaper as they would be cutting their nose off....??

What about after the sale? Are warranties, maintenance and service techs the same? How about the Agco line brought to a MF dealer for service and warranty work?
Everything is about the same. As far as warranty work I don't know but it is my impression that they have to be taken to the same badge.

hobbyfarm · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

( While searching for AC 5020 parts, the most help I received was from a MF parts man who was limited by the Agco inventory. He was confident that the parts were out there, but the Agco software limited his search by not listing NOS. He even did a nationwide search with very limited results...He blamed Agco for no longer supporting the older Allis Chalmers.)

That's the problem here, the Allis-Chalmers dealer here dropped orange like a bad habit, all of a sudden. This after being an AC dealer for 40+ years. Now, who supports the brand? Nearest dealer now is 322 miles away in Bryan, Texas. Did AGCO pressure the dealer to drop AC? The dealer in question became a Massey dealer, but what about the many customers around here who have the REAL orange? They are left out in the weather. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Why didn't the dealer just add Massey and run both brands - sort of like the auto super markets that have Pontiac, Buick, and Olds?

AGCO is making some boneheaded decisions, and anyone doing business with them is paying for this boneheadedness. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Jerry is right, Massey is their cash cow and it is pretty stable - for now. All the other brands are just trimmins (parasites??) of the MF brand.

hobbyfarm · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

I just did a dealer search -
and those two step-children of Agco, Fendt and Valtra both have closer dealers than the established brand name Allis-Chalmers.
Funny thing is - farmers tend to be set in their ways. And they tend to be very loyal to their particular brands - unless outside forces push them away (like dealers who drop brands). Things like introducing a new, unheard of tractor brand from half way around the world (much less TWO brands) seems very poor decision making at the corporate level.
Why not develop the brands you have into something that will sell? Rather than go shopping around the world for "unique" stuff to put on the dealers lot. Who knows, maybe in the future, AGCO will be shopping in Russia or China for an "exclusive" brand.
B o n e h e a d e d decisions. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

GeneD14 · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

( If it wasn't for their Massey Ferguson devision there wouldn't even be an AGCO and they wouldn't have had the money to buy the other 20 companies that they own. )

Lets not forget that in the 1980's Massey Ferguson was bought out because they were in financial trouble. Looking and AGCO's financial reports it is impossible to figure out which brand is the most profitable full channel.
That being said I agree that it is more cost effective to manufacture and sell one brand instead of several. The problem with that logic is that most American farmers are deathly loyal to their color or brand of tractor. AGCO stands for Allis Gleaner Company. To this day many farmers will buy an AGCO because it is orange (just like the old Allis Chalmers) and prides itself as carrying on that lineage.

JerryG · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

The AGCO of today has almost nothing to do with the Allis or with Gleaner of yesterday. There was a few executives from those old companies that had bought the rights and very little else. With about 100K in sales a year they put up their homes, land and cars to raise enough money to buy MF from Varity Group. Since then they have bought last of my count was 19 other companies. Most of them have been good purchases and will make AGCO stronger in the future. Fendt and Valtra have been good examples of good buys. Fendt has the technology and the best transmission in the world and when they bought Valtra they got a very very good engine. Now they have engines back in house again.
I don't have anything against these purchases and I really feel that they will be good for the company. What I do have a problem with is bring a new brand out that can't support itself and using MF money and resources to do it, just so they can have their OWN brand.

Gator6x4 · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

AGCO owns MF. Purchased in 1994. They (AGCO) owns a lot of the agriculture equipment companies we all grew up with. We in our search of saving a dollar have eliminated a lot of the old equipment manafacturing companies.

See this link for a history on AGCO:

http://www.agcocorp.com//default.cfm?pid=1.16.4

hobbyfarm · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

( AGCO owns MF. Purchased in 1994.)

Gator6x4,
I'm very familiar with their history. I just don't care for their way of buying up everything.
Sort of reminds me of an inexperienced person playing Monopoly for the first time. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Also, it can't be good for business when you all of a sudden have dealers close up and start dealing something else.

Picture this:
Paco & Conchita run a tortilla factory, but one day, they decide to start making MP3 players. It may just be me, but the company's assets don't really lend themselves to electronics production.
(to me, this makes about as much sense as what AGCO is doing.) Granted, Jerry did make some sense out of the strategic moves (engines from here, transmissions from there.) they are making, but this seems to be an expensive way to go about it. You have farmers who for a couple of generations used Allis-Chalmers equipment, who have purchased multiple units over the years, and now, the closest dealer is half-way across the state (the state of TEXAS, not a county-sized state like Maryland /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). YOUR dealer is now selling some other something and can't even get you parts. Deere and IH are right down the street and are stable businesses.
This is what I'm talking about, 'not a good way to do business.' Loosing customers is never good business practice - it costs way too much money to get them back. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif If they loose enough clients, they'll be for sell. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

JerryG · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Those are well respected brands on the other side of the pond. We have to remember that it is a world economy now, not just the USA. MF sells more tractors in the rest of the world than they do in the U.S. I am sure that is some of the reason they bought Fendt and Valtra as well as being able to use the engines and transmissions. It may not sound like it, but I have very little (other than the AGCO tractor brand thing) to complain about when it comes to the way AGCO does business. They have taken several companies that were not doing very well and turned them around as a whole. Ratliff did a very good job at buying companies and integrating them into one company.

hobbyfarm · Nov 2, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Jerry,
I can see it now, Allis-Chalmers are going to be the next big thing in the vintage tractor collector's collections.
With the closing of so many dealers, there will be a bunch of orange sittin around pushing up hackberry trees /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif