New Dairy

[pilot-werx]

How many cows/freestalls? What are you doing for manure storage and feed?

As of this morning we are starting with 25 Normande Cattle as they produce a desirable milk for making cheese and everything will be a free stall. If I can make it work, I am going to try robotic milking machines and a robotic manure scraper.

I am not sure what we will end up doing for manure or feed at this point.

 

[boxygen]

Our family business is Kate's Homemade Butter (Official Website of Kate's Homemade Butter). We will never be able to care for the head of cattle that we would need to supply our cream needs, but we will have a small herd of cattle to supply our R&D lab. Going in shortly after the main building is finished will be the milking parlor and cattle barn. We will then be able to bring raw milk into the plant and run it through our HTST pasteurizer.

I was able to use the SIPs, Marvin's, and Hardie Plank as I was the one who did most of the engineering to prove it would work. The cold reality is that where I am the GC/engineer the cost per foot to do the building is similar as going with someone like Butler and buying their wall and roof system. The hardest part was finding a contractor that was willing to try building it. There were many nights I sat running numbers and simulations to verify that it would work... I have had a lot of interest from others so I am hoping when I am done with this one, I can share my design with folks who would like to do something similar.

For residential, you can use the same spray foam that you put in the walls for the floor. You do not need any specialized density foam or have to spend $40 per sheet for the 4'x8'x2" blue board. Just spray the foam and staple the PEX (RHT Foam Stapler and Staples). Once stapled, pour the concrete...

It is great to finally some time to breath and to share with everyone. thank you for looking!

Ah ha! I knew there had to be more to the story. Looks like a retail/showroom/working dairy. I can see why you went with the higher end building products for that. I've installed a ton of Marvin windows and even been to the Marvin window Factory in Minnesota but Ive never seen them in a barn. It makes more sense now.
We dont use a lot of real butter in our household but when we do it is Kate's. Nothing better with lobster Someone was just telling me about the company and how they essentially make all their product in a house in Old Orchard. Interesting to put all these pieces together. When will you be open for tours???:licking: I'll bring some freshly baked bread.:thumbsup:
Ive done staple up radiant, quick track radiant, warm board radiant, radiant with crete hete, radiant tied to wire mesh, and electric radiant. I see what you are saying with spray foam and Im sure it works well, I just dont seem how the ecomomics works out in favor. We typically figure that the cost of installed ridid insulation is around $.90-1.00/SF and that is 2" thick. Spray foam is around 1.00/BF and you will need at least two inches. So that works out to twice the cost of spray foam. You would have some slight savings because you probably dont need a separate vapor barrier. Also the irregularity of the surface of spray foam would make it difficult to figure concrete quantity accurately. I dont doubt it works well and If you like it thats all that matters.
I'm guessing you are a mechanical engineer? Did you model the building to get an energy load?

 

[pilot-werx]

Ah ha! I knew there had to be more to the story. Looks like a retail/showroom/working dairy. I can see why you went with the higher end building products for that. I've installed a ton of Marvin windows and even been to the Marvin window Factory in Minnesota but Ive never seen them in a barn. It makes more sense now.
We dont use a lot of real butter in our household but when we do it is Kate's. Nothing better with lobster Someone was just telling me about the company and how they essentially make all their product in a house in Old Orchard. Interesting to put all these pieces together. When will you be open for tours???:licking: I'll bring some freshly baked bread.:thumbsup:
Ive done staple up radiant, quick track radiant, warm board radiant, radiant with crete hete, radiant tied to wire mesh, and electric radiant. I see what you are saying with spray foam and Im sure it works well, I just dont seem how the ecomomics works out in favor. We typically figure that the cost of installed ridid insulation is around $.90-1.00/SF and that is 2" thick. Spray foam is around 1.00/BF and you will need at least two inches. So that works out to twice the cost of spray foam. You would have some slight savings because you probably dont need a separate vapor barrier. Also the irregularity of the surface of spray foam would make it difficult to figure concrete quantity accurately. I dont doubt it works well and If you like it thats all that matters.
I'm guessing you are a mechanical engineer? Did you model the building to get an energy load?

Indeed, the product is made in the house we grew up in. We are very proud of the products we have created and take great pride that all of our products have won top honors at the World Dairy Expo. We keep thinking about doing a retail building in the front. I originally designed that first as it was going to be attached to the manufacturing facility. What makes this whole project tough is that I have to keep the FDA and USDA happy.

For me, the cost of the radiant with foam is that I have about 18,000 sqft to cover. Crete heat was never an option as it does not meet the new energy code for our area. With me doing the design and writing the code for the machine that makes the foam panels, I can basically order them in any thickness and any length which will make the install much faster.

I am hoping to be up and running this fall and you are more than welcome to come check it out. Just send me a message on here. I am also there nearly everyday so if you want to see where I am at in construction I would love to show you the building. Where are you located?

I am a mechanical engineer by education with a strong background in structural. Before coming back into the family business I spent many years designing pharmaceutical, beverage and dairy plants. It has been fun to be able to finally incorporate everything that I have liked from every other plant into our plant.

I have not done the energy load yet but I do not expect it to be much... I hope! It is going to be interesting as inside the rooms will be completely wide open. There are no false ceilings...

 

[whitedogone]

How do you install the ground plane on top of foam sprayed on dirt?

 

[boxygen]

So the entire frame is custom? Who did you have fab it?
Im in the Freeport area, where is this construction taking place?
Do you ever plan on having this open to the public kinda like Smiling Hill Farm does?

 

[atgreene]

Nice job! I'd love a tour. I'm assuming that the barn isn't in OOB? My wife is from Saco, when she saw the pics she laughed and said "no way thats in OOB".

It's nice to see a small Maine company compete, good luck!

 

[pilot-werx]

How do you install the ground plane on top of foam sprayed on dirt?

I am not sure I understand what you are asking? Once all of the drain lines and underground utilities are in place, I will get the final grade established then spray right over the dirt. The closed cell foam will form the vapor barrier and provide the insulation in one process.

 

[pilot-werx]

Nice job! I'd love a tour. I'm assuming that the barn isn't in OOB? My wife is from Saco, when she saw the pics she laughed and said "no way thats in OOB".

It's nice to see a small Maine company compete, good luck!

The new building is not located in OOB and honestly I do not think it would fit the character of the town. It is located on RT111 in Arundel just down the road from the Biddeford shopping center.

 

[whitedogone]

I am not sure I understand what you are asking? Once all of the drain lines and underground utilities are in place, I will get the final grade established then spray right over the dirt. The closed cell foam will form the vapor barrier and provide the insulation in one process.

So you just lay the ground plane on top of the sprayed foam? The foam jobs i've seen are a little rough. It seems like the plane wouldn't lay very flat.

 

[pilot-werx]

So the entire frame is custom? Who did you have fab it?
Im in the Freeport area, where is this construction taking place?
Do you ever plan on having this open to the public kinda like Smiling Hill Farm does?

The entire steel frame is custom. After we settled on how we wanted the building to look conceptually and where we wanted the frames to land, it was sent to steel and wood companies. I initially was going to try to do it as a timber frame but trying to span 80' without a column was too much. I then tried the glue laminated arch route and that did not work well either. I then left it in the hands of the steel company to do the final engineering given our climate and wind conditions. The company that ended up supplying the steel was Varco Pruden. Great company and great quality.

It will indeed be open to the public. We are also excited that we will have the opportunity to bring the local school kids in to teach them a little bit of what we do. Plus it is a great excuse to fire up the ice cream machine to make a true buttermilk based dessert! Since our customers are the ones who have allowed us to grow, the least we can do is to show our customers our new home.

 

[pilot-werx]

Since I had to design a rather large septic system to handle our waste water, I have been working on a spray irrigation design that will take all of our wash water to irrigate the fields. Since we do not use any radical cleaning chemicals (acids and caustics), if the water is given time to buffer itself in a 10k tank, it neutralizes itself. Since we have below freezing conditions part of the air, sending water to sprinklers will not work. To solve the problem, I am going to send the water to a fan snow gun. That big hill behind the building will make a mean sledding hill. I did mention we like to have fun right??? And yes, the town thinks I have gone crazy!

 

[Ranger Rick]

That big hill behind the building will make a mean sledding hill. I did mention we like to have fun right??? And yes, the town thinks I have gone crazy!

Just tell the town it is part of your agritainment program. It will be your next project after the barn is done.
Rick

 

[whitedogone]

I'm getting the vibe that you may not be up to speed on ground planes. It can be a very important issue, especially in Dairy farms. Prehaps some research is in order.

http://www.egr.msu.edu/age/documents/news_archives/et/construction.pdf

 

[pilot-werx]

I'm getting the vibe that you may not be up to speed on ground planes. It can be a very important issue, especially in Dairy farms. Prehaps some research is in order.

http://www.egr.msu.edu/age/documents/news_archives/et/construction.pdf

Your vibe is correct. In looking at the documentation it seems like it would be more of a problem with older structures and installations. Right now my grounding plane is my foundation. I welded a piece of rebar to the footings to give the electrician something to work with. In addition, no animals are allowed to come in the building per USDA/FDA..... Am I still missing the big picture? If so any help is appreciated

 

[civesnedfield]

I think what is confusing some folks is that you are building a Dairy. Essentially a precessing plant turning raw milk into a dairy product. You are not building a Dairy Farm, which is generally associated with the collection of raw milk.

Buuuuuuuut you do talk of cows and a robotic milking machine and robotic gutter cleaner. So I may be a bit confused too. Maybe you need to explain exactly what will be going on in this barn that, NO Dairy farmer in his right mind would think he could pay for milking cows, would think of building. :laughing:

 

[pilot-werx]

I think what is confusing some folks is that you are building a Dairy. Essentially a precessing plant turning raw milk into a dairy product. You are not building a Dairy Farm, which is generally associated with the collection of raw milk.

Buuuuuuuut you do talk of cows and a robotic milking machine and robotic gutter cleaner. So I may be a bit confused too. Maybe you need to explain exactly what will be going on in this barn that, NO Dairy farmer in his right mind would think he could pay for milking cows, would think of building. :laughing:

I will it give it my best shot. My folks started the business 35 years ago in the home we grew up in as a way for my mom to make an income while being home. As our parents, they made the commitment to make sure one of them was there when we left for school and got home from school. In addition, it was important that we sat down as a family every evening to eat and to discuss what was going on in our daily lives. Fast forward to today, there is three of us boys that are involved at different levels. I have an older brother is that has built a career around real estate and sales. I have a younger brother that is involved in the day to day production. Then there is me who is the engineer of the outfit. The big barn that is being built now is strictly for processing raw milk. Right now we focus on butter and real buttermilk. It is interesting to note that we are the only company in the country that is a producing a "real" buttermilk. Every other buttermilk you see in the store is a cultured skim, lowfat, or whole milk.

As I mentioned, it is truly a family business and it is important that we all have a voice. My younger brother, a phenomenal dairy scientist, spent two years in Europe running an Austrian Alpine farm where he learned the art of making cheese. Somehow, we were able to lure him back here to help with the business under one condition.... When we built the new facility he wanted to import a herd of Normande Cattle from Europe. So that is where the cattle come in. As soon as the manufacturing plant is finished the builders will transition to making another barn for the cattle. Right now it will be 25 head. The cattle barn will most likely be an R&D facility containing robotic milkers and robotic manure scraping machines. It is my hopes that I can attract industry suppliers that are willing to work with me on pricing if I allow them to show future customers how the equipment works in the real world. The milk that we produce from the cows will then be transported across the parking lot to the big barn for processing into cheese, butter, ice cream, milk, etc...

I hope the above clarifies the confusion. In the end, we will have a milking barn and a separate processing barn...

 

[pilot-werx]

and to think, it started as this... and that was all trees at one point

 

[jinman]

and to think, it started as this... and that was all trees at one point

Of course the view is limited, but that photo of land clearing looks a lot flatter than your aerial photo.

 

[whitedogone]

Your vibe is correct. In looking at the documentation it seems like it would be more of a problem with older structures and installations. Right now my grounding plane is my foundation. I welded a piece of rebar to the footings to give the electrician something to work with. In addition, no animals are allowed to come in the building per USDA/FDA..... Am I still missing the big picture? If so any help is appreciated

Not necessarily.

Is it required? No, not it's it's not for confinment/milking.

 

[pilot-werx]

Of course the view is limited, but that photo of land clearing looks a lot flatter than your aerial photo.

Here is the topo of the original site and the development impact. I can say I had the original topo generated by flying the site and I would not say it is 100% accurate. Another big challenge of the site is that one corner of the building sits on ledge and the opposite corner sits on 21' of clay.