New Diesel Generator

[Bigbear]

We live offgrid (solar panels) and use a generator quite often. I just ordered a new Amico AHR6000LN, diesel generator with remote start, just wondered if anyone has used this brand. We currently use a gas powered DeWalt 7000 that is pretty good on gas, but still uses alot. I hope it turns out to be a good investment. BEAR

 

[schmism]

hmmmmm

Based on your need, had it been me, i would have ponnied up the extra $$ for a 1800 rpm version built for more permant install (ie RV)

they have distinct advantages (you pay for)

1) quiet
2) fuel efficent 1800rpm
3) duty cycle (hrs of life)

So your going from a $2K 7KW dewalt (honda powered) to a $1400 6KW amico?

 

[mahlers]

Is your solar system battery based where you'll only need the generator occasionally, or will the generator be your prime source of power with the solar being a contributor? Are you running sensitive electronics?

My experience with most small generators is they eat up electronics like TVs and stereos pretty quick. If your solar system is battery-based and you're using good sine-wave inverters (Outback, Xantrex, Beacon, SMA), the best practice is to use a DC genset to directly charge the batteries and then let the inverters convert to AC cleanly.

 

[Bigbear]

My decision was based on price, the better diesel choices are about 3 or more times the cost. My generator, battery, inverter, etc, is somewhat underground, so noise is not an issue. I was trying to get the most bang for the bucks at hand. My inverter is true sinewave, no problem there. I also use the generator for the wood shop, and at the same time to run the Xantrex 40 battery charger. We use very little AC in the cabin, so therefore the batteries never drop below 12.4. BEAR

 

[mahlers]

Sounds like this generator will work fine for you. For the price, it seems like a solid unit. Made in China (I believe), but lately most of the Chinese diesel engines aren't bad at all.

 

[RonMar]

I am sure you will notice a significant change(for the better) in the ammount of fuel consumed over a gas generator. I agree with schmism though for the same reasons.

 

[Soundguy]

Reading the posts here at TBN.. some people must have huge runs of bad luck at finding horribly cheaply or shoddily built gennies, if you are eating electronics. In principle.. a geny should put out cleaner power than an inverter. Just got to keep the freq solid . IE.. rpm control needs to be solid. Voltage regulation is the easy part.

My genny puts out cleaner looking power than my utility does...

I also like to have more hp available for the genny/ load than needed. IE.. I usually have more than the 2hp/kw figure.. that way the engine rpm stays more solid, thus freq stays right on.. etc.

That's why i like a pto generator that uses your 'presumably' high-er quality tractor engine, vs a little chinese aluminum 1 banger running at a bazillion rpm at near max load to put out power...

Soundguy

Is your solar system battery based where you'll only need the generator occasionally, or will the generator be your prime source of power with the solar being a contributor? Are you running sensitive electronics?

My experience with most small generators is they eat up electronics like TVs and stereos pretty quick. If your solar system is battery-based and you're using good sine-wave inverters (Outback, Xantrex, Beacon, SMA), the best practice is to use a DC genset to directly charge the batteries and then let the inverters convert to AC cleanly.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

hmmmmm ....
1800 rpm genset, they have distinct advantages (you pay for)

1) quiet
2) fuel efficent 1800rpm
3) duty cycle (hrs of life)

As a blanket statement I'd take issue with the above.

My Onan genset does run at 1800 rpm, not particularlly quiet IMO. BIL's Onan is a newer model, single cyl runs much faster, 3600 rpm? and is much quieter.

Lots of variable in determining fuel efficiency. An engine is most efficient, fuel usage in for power out, when running at the engine's peak torque. That may or may not be 1800 rpm.

Expected life of a genset is more dependent on design and qlty of components chosen than engine speed.

 

[mahlers]

My bad experiences might have been due to the fact that I used industrial/commercial purpose generators (Makita/Robin) to power my house during long outages. They work great for large tools, but the output isn't very clean at all when large loads are being applied. For example, I could see my TV picture getting distorted all over the place every time a well pump would start up or a refrigerator would kick in. After enough of those power swings, the TV just plain crapped out. I'm sure that, if I had been running a really big (10kW+) generator, the distortion would have been much less and I might have been fine. Instead of going with a bigger generator, I went the route of a 14.4 kW grid-tied solar system with a 1690 AH 48v battery bank. Now the power can go out and I don't even notice it unless I look at the system monitor. Best investment I ever made - other than the tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

well.. yeah.. if you have a small genny, and are running near electrical load capacity and/or have no reserve hp.. then i can see a huge load like a pump kicking on really hosing the output of a genny. Motor starts can typically take as much as 2x power requirements for a short period. Really old ones can take as much as 3x.

if your genny is having to dip into that reserve past it's capability, then rpm is going to drop, and so will freq.. if the laod is too high.. votlage may dip.. etc.

Like I said.. i like having way more electrical generation capability than needed out of the gen head to prevent electrical overloading and voltage drops, and way more engine hp so that high demand laods don't cause rpm fluctuations. its a big difference looking at the sine wave at the onset of a heavy load when you are running the genny on 'just enough' hp, and then you swap it to 3x the rated hp... and test again... yet another reason why U don't like small gas powered portable gennies.

If I need low wattage AC.. I've got an assortment of inverters.. if I need high wattage AC.. then the tractor comes out...

soundguy

 

[Skyco]

Inverters- Hmmm. I have several ranging from 400 watts to 2000 watts. At my mountain hideaway I don't have commercial power so I use a 4000 watt gas genset if I have to run the AC in hot weather or the microwave oven. The 2000 watt inverter will run the microwave but it doesn't like it...takes twice as long to cook something Someday I'll have to throw the o'scope on its output to see just how poor it is, it is an el cheapo.
BTW some years back I had an inverter fail. When it did it apparently shot a nice high voltage spike back into the 12v bus, frying a $1,000 ham radio. I was not happy

 

[SnowRidge]

BTW some years back I had an inverter fail. When it did it apparently shot a nice high voltage spike back into the 12v bus, frying a $1,000 ham radio. I was not happy

There may be a lesson here. My wife wants to do "green power" at the new place we are planning, which will mean solar panels and a sine wave inverter. Your experience indicates it would be a good idea to clamp the 12 volt line to some safe value in order to protect other 12 volt equipment, should the inverter fail.

Thank you. I will keep that in mind.

 

[RonMar]

Inverters- Hmmm. I have several ranging from 400 watts to 2000 watts. At my mountain hideaway I don't have commercial power so I use a 4000 watt gas genset if I have to run the AC in hot weather or the microwave oven. The 2000 watt inverter will run the microwave but it doesn't like it...takes twice as long to cook something Someday I'll have to throw the o'scope on its output to see just how poor it is, it is an el cheapo.
BTW some years back I had an inverter fail. When it did it apparently shot a nice high voltage spike back into the 12v bus, frying a $1,000 ham radio. I was not happy

You are probably running a modified sine wave inverter. Inductive loads of which a microwave oven is, derive the bulk of thier energy from the peak section of the pulse. Since you have less peak in a modified sine, you are delivering less energy which is why the microwave takes longer to cook.

There may be a lesson here. My wife wants to do "green power" at the new place we are planning, which will mean solar panels and a sine wave inverter. Your experience indicates it would be a good idea to clamp the 12 volt line to some safe value in order to protect other 12 volt equipment, should the inverter fail.:

I would say if you are planning the majority of your power comming from the inverter, I would reccomend something more than a 12V system. 24 or 48V at least. The conversion from higher DC voltages is more efficient as well as the loading applied to the cells. Watts are Watts. A 12V battery bank has to supply 4 times the current of a 48V bank for a given inverter load. The greater the current drain from a battery, the greater the losses due to internal resistance and heat.

 

[SnowRidge]

You are probably running a modified sine wave inverter. Inductive loads of which a microwave oven is, derive the bulk of thier energy from the peak section of the pulse. Since you have less peak in a modified sine, you are delivering less energy which is why the microwave takes longer to cook.



I would say if you are planning the majority of your power comming from the inverter, I would reccomend something more than a 12V system. 24 or 48V at least. The conversion from higher DC voltages is more efficient as well as the loading applied to the cells. Watts are Watts. A 12V battery bank has to supply 4 times the current of a 48V bank for a given inverter load. The greater the current drain from a battery, the greater the losses due to internal resistance and heat.

Agreed, that was quick reply without much thought to it, other than the light bulb going off in my head when I read about letting the smoke out of the ham rig.

I have quite a bit of experience with battery equipped DC systems, including living off of them. I've lived off of 12 volts, but also had to deal with 24, 48, 60 and even one 110 volt DC system. When the time comes, we'll choose the technology and voltage that makes the most sense from a design and financial standpoint.

 

[Soundguy]

There may be a lesson here. My wife wants to do "green power" at the new place we are planning, which will mean solar panels and a sine wave inverter. Your experience indicates it would be a good idea to clamp the 12 volt line to some safe value in order to protect other 12 volt equipment, should the inverter fail.

Thank you. I will keep that in mind.

I've made plenty of ac line surge protectors, and dc ones as well. it's pretty easy to setup a system using a couple bucks of components and a fuse so that a votlage spike above your threshold? 16v say.. would make trigger a short and cause excessive current thru the supply fuse, thus shutting it down. zenir diodes come to mind, as well as reverse polarity protector diodes in key places, and might as well throw an MOV and NE bulb to catch the really high stuff..

soundguy

 

[SnowRidge]

I've made plenty of ac line surge protectors, and dc ones as well. it's pretty easy to setup a system using a couple bucks of components and a fuse so that a votlage spike above your threshold? 16v say.. would make trigger a short and cause excessive current thru the supply fuse, thus shutting it down. zenir diodes come to mind, as well as reverse polarity protector diodes in key places, and might as well throw an MOV and NE bulb to catch the really high stuff..

soundguy

I've built them too. We used to buy Transtector avalanche diodes and make our own lightning protectors for our solar powered radio systems.

 

[Bigbear]

Received the generator, charged battery, oil and fuel, hit the switch and away she went. Had my electrician friend check out the voltage part and he was impressed with the output. The fuel comsumption is great, compared to the gas generators, so far, so good, only time will tell. Thanks for all the input guys, for someone on a budget like me, I would have to give this generator a thumbs up. BEAR

 

[Soundguy]

If ever in doubt.. get a graphing / freq reading VOM, and leave it hooked up and just walk by and check oue the sine wave every now and then.. and when under high load.. and under full load.

Genies usually put out nice sine wave as it is pretty much same stuff the utility gives you off mag and copper... freq will be the issue..

Soundguy

 

[Dan Lamb]

Thank all you gentleman for your input , there are many options and ideas . The knowledge ,expertise and just good old school commonsense is appreciated very much , Thank You , Nor Cal Dan