TwinWillows
Gold Member
Cubman: Can you post some photos of your unit? I've looked @ the web site & they are no closeups & what's there is pretty grainy. Thanks.
New Electra-Tach attachment?
- Thread starter ADoc12
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Hello gentlemen. I see there has been some good conversation. Just wanted to get back on here and give you guys an update.
I did end up getting the Electra-Tach for him, and from what I could tell he really liked it. He seemed pretty eager to get it installed (I couldn't sneak away his tractor, so I had to give it to him in the box). Although he is lazy and has yet to have it installed, even though I was told it should only take an hour or so.
I read that someone was interested of pictures of the product? I may be able to take a picture of the parts to the attachment out of the box. But would not be able to photograph it on the tractor until he takes it to the dealer for installation. Let me know and I can try to get some pictures of it!
Sorry that I couldn't offer anyone actual usage experience.
I did end up getting the Electra-Tach for him, and from what I could tell he really liked it. He seemed pretty eager to get it installed (I couldn't sneak away his tractor, so I had to give it to him in the box). Although he is lazy and has yet to have it installed, even though I was told it should only take an hour or so.
I read that someone was interested of pictures of the product? I may be able to take a picture of the parts to the attachment out of the box. But would not be able to photograph it on the tractor until he takes it to the dealer for installation. Let me know and I can try to get some pictures of it!
Sorry that I couldn't offer anyone actual usage experience.
TwinWillows - I'll see what I can do. Not sure how to post the pics but will figure that out.
MossRoad - I thought the same thing when I first saw this. However, the dealer gave me a couple of good reasons why electric was better choice on the tractor. First was, you can still run a hydraulic circuit up front for the uses you described and that circuit will always be free and ready to use. If the powered quick attach used the hydraulics then you would have the switching etc using some sort of solenoid valve and things can get messy and less reliable from there. At least on the tractors that is. PowerTrac has a lot of extra hydraulic capacity so for that app I understand why they use hydraulic. Second was the hydraulic hoses would require 2 of them running through the pivot area on the loader which is a pinch point. If either hose becomes damaged you have problems. With the Electra-Tach, there is only 1 wire and it's designed to be changed in under 5 minutes should it become damaged. I figured by looking at it's location, at some point in time it will get damaged whether it is hydraulic or electric so I wanted the easy fix should it arise. Also firgured 2 vs 1 would be twice as likely to become damaged. Hasn't yet for me though (fingers crossed). I am impressed with the electric unit. It's very tough.
MossRoad - I thought the same thing when I first saw this. However, the dealer gave me a couple of good reasons why electric was better choice on the tractor. First was, you can still run a hydraulic circuit up front for the uses you described and that circuit will always be free and ready to use. If the powered quick attach used the hydraulics then you would have the switching etc using some sort of solenoid valve and things can get messy and less reliable from there. At least on the tractors that is. PowerTrac has a lot of extra hydraulic capacity so for that app I understand why they use hydraulic. Second was the hydraulic hoses would require 2 of them running through the pivot area on the loader which is a pinch point. If either hose becomes damaged you have problems. With the Electra-Tach, there is only 1 wire and it's designed to be changed in under 5 minutes should it become damaged. I figured by looking at it's location, at some point in time it will get damaged whether it is hydraulic or electric so I wanted the easy fix should it arise. Also firgured 2 vs 1 would be twice as likely to become damaged. Hasn't yet for me though (fingers crossed). I am impressed with the electric unit. It's very tough.
MossRoad
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 66,618
- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
Lets modify a standard CUT FEL quick attach system to make it power operated and not talk about a Power Trac for a moment since most folks have standard CUTS...cub_man said:
With an electric unit, you have to hook it up to the manual quick attach system and run some wires and other electrical stuff.
With a hydraulic unit, you have to hook it up to the manual quick attach system and run some hoses and other hydraulic stuff.
We end up with identical functionality at this point... flip an electric switch or valve lever and the quick attach latches open and close. Very cool and time saving for the operator.
Now pop on a grapple bucket, a pretty popular option.
How are you going to power the hydraulic cylinder to open and close the grapple?
If you have an electric quick attach that won't help you. You're going to have to run some hoses and other hydraulic stuff just like the guy that opted for the hydraulic quick attach did, right?
If we're going to have to run a hydraulic circuit up there anyway to run our grapple, why not put it to good use to have it run the quick attach circuit, too? No solenoid valves are needed. We just need quick disconnect hydraulic connectors on our hoses. When we hook up our grapple, we will flip the hydraulic valve located at the operator's station to lock the quick attach latch, securing the grapple bucket to our FEL. Then, set the brakes and shut off the tractor (safety first, right
). We get off the tractor, walk to the front, disconnect the hoses from the quick attach circuit and attach those same hoses to the grapple circuit. That's it. We're done.Here's a video of how it works.
It takes about 9 additional seconds, if you watch the clock as the video runs.
I would venture to say that by shopping at a place like Surplus Center, we could put together a hydraulic quick attach circuit with valve and hoses for about $500.00, the same price as the electric unit. We would then have the same functionality as the electric unit with the advantage of an additional hydraulic circuit at the front of our FEL to power things.
As far as durability goes, I've had many more wires pulled out of my equipment than I've had damaged hydraulic hoses. I've also had many electrical component failures and no hydraulic failures that I can recall.
MossRoad - All very good points and certainly agree. There are a few items though which are worthy noting.
If you look at where they have to route the hoses on a CUT to get to the quick attach unit. There is a pinch point (this would be the bottom right - as seated in the opperators seat - pivot pin on the loader). You can run either 2 hoses through that area or 1 electric cable. One of my very first engineering profs always stressed simplicity. 2 hoses = twice the likelyhood for failure. Next, replacing that hose will be more expensive than the $12 quick change cable - as per my dealer - and more time consuming.
I've been told the Electra-Tach has been rated at over 175,000 change overs with no failures. Most hydraulic cylinders you will be replacing a seal around 100,000 cycles - stat from one of my engineering classes. Granted a seal is not expensive to replace but it's a pain.
To have a quick change coupling somewhere near the front of the CUT behind the bucket area I'm certain there would be a piped elbow or something in there. This would be very suspect to breakage due to the dynamic loading encountered on the front of a loader being banged around and such. In the video you have the couplings are mounted in a great place on the frame. This would really be the same in your description for a CUT application.
Most CUT's have open center hydraulics. Break a hose anywhere on the machine and now your front attachment could "relax" in the hydraulic department and potentially come off. I know this sounds a little dramatic but hey, safety first. You can remove the power to the Electra-Tach and it still stays locked in the position it was left in.
I've had hydraulic failures many times before. I've also had electrical failures as well. Properly designed and installed. Both systems will deliver a reliable solution. It's just the solenoid valves (I know your scenario doesn't use one but I've seen them on the skid steers our there) are very prone to failure and 2 hoses vs 1 cable in a critical pinch point tends to make one think simpler is more reliable.
One can put a system together for around $500. You have to remember the folks who make Electra-Tach have to make some sort of profit then your dealer needs to pay his electric bill as well. That said, it's marked up twice and still a $500 option. I think that's a fair price considering what all is in the system.
I did a lot of research and was skeptical at first. This is a very durable solution. I've seen these actuators used on combines all the time and they are the real deal. Very tough.
I know some photos would be beneficial. I'm working on it.
Either way, a powered quick attach on a CUT or any other piece of equipment is the cat's caboose. I'm glad I got one and wouldn't be without it.
If you look at where they have to route the hoses on a CUT to get to the quick attach unit. There is a pinch point (this would be the bottom right - as seated in the opperators seat - pivot pin on the loader). You can run either 2 hoses through that area or 1 electric cable. One of my very first engineering profs always stressed simplicity. 2 hoses = twice the likelyhood for failure. Next, replacing that hose will be more expensive than the $12 quick change cable - as per my dealer - and more time consuming.
I've been told the Electra-Tach has been rated at over 175,000 change overs with no failures. Most hydraulic cylinders you will be replacing a seal around 100,000 cycles - stat from one of my engineering classes. Granted a seal is not expensive to replace but it's a pain.
To have a quick change coupling somewhere near the front of the CUT behind the bucket area I'm certain there would be a piped elbow or something in there. This would be very suspect to breakage due to the dynamic loading encountered on the front of a loader being banged around and such. In the video you have the couplings are mounted in a great place on the frame. This would really be the same in your description for a CUT application.
Most CUT's have open center hydraulics. Break a hose anywhere on the machine and now your front attachment could "relax" in the hydraulic department and potentially come off. I know this sounds a little dramatic but hey, safety first. You can remove the power to the Electra-Tach and it still stays locked in the position it was left in.
I've had hydraulic failures many times before. I've also had electrical failures as well. Properly designed and installed. Both systems will deliver a reliable solution. It's just the solenoid valves (I know your scenario doesn't use one but I've seen them on the skid steers our there) are very prone to failure and 2 hoses vs 1 cable in a critical pinch point tends to make one think simpler is more reliable.
One can put a system together for around $500. You have to remember the folks who make Electra-Tach have to make some sort of profit then your dealer needs to pay his electric bill as well. That said, it's marked up twice and still a $500 option. I think that's a fair price considering what all is in the system.
I did a lot of research and was skeptical at first. This is a very durable solution. I've seen these actuators used on combines all the time and they are the real deal. Very tough.
I know some photos would be beneficial. I'm working on it.
Either way, a powered quick attach on a CUT or any other piece of equipment is the cat's caboose. I'm glad I got one and wouldn't be without it.
MossRoad
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 66,618
- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
cub_man said:
You got that right!
Here's a link to a picture of the FEL lift arms on my PT425. You can see pretty well how the hoses are routed, and how the quick attach hoses are protected by being run inside of steel pipes. The blue caps are the main hydraulic PTO connections for large hydraulic motors like mowers and brush hogs.
jmc
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2003
- Messages
- 3,208
- Location
- SW Indiana
- Tractor
- Ford 1920 4x4 (traded in on Kubota). Case 480F TLB w/4 in 1 bucket, 4x4. Gehl CTL60 tracked loader, Kubota L4330 GST
Wow, Cub Man, you make some good points on this product. As knowledgable and thoughtful as you appear to be, I'm surprised you could sit in silence for all these years.
JMC - Thank you for the kind words.
I'm not that knowledgable on anything. Keeps me out of trouble that way.
I have spent a great deal of time away from the internet and this board. The Mrs, 3 children (now at very active ages 6, 8, 10), plus that ever so valuable seat time, and my job keep me moving. This board is a great place. I'm glad I got a chance to toss in a post.
I'm not that knowledgable on anything. Keeps me out of trouble that way.
I have spent a great deal of time away from the internet and this board. The Mrs, 3 children (now at very active ages 6, 8, 10), plus that ever so valuable seat time, and my job keep me moving. This board is a great place. I'm glad I got a chance to toss in a post.
BobRip
Elite Member
I am glad to see this has turned positive. When a new guy gets on we need to give him the benefit of the doubt. Even if he is a manufacturer plant there is proabably something to be learned about an otherwise not discussed product. Little harm done and a lot to gain.
