New Electrical Service Panel for welder install

stevenf · Jul 23, 2006

I need to put in a 50 amp service box for my welder I'm running it like a main supply panel instead of a sub panel. I'm not an electrician by any stretch so I've got what probably is a stupid question which will probably get me the call a professional response but if I had the money for that I wouldn't need a welder I'd just call somebody everytime I need or break something made out of metal.
Heres my question I have a supply cable which has two big black lines and a twisted bare wire of equal size wrapped together but no outer insulation I'm hoping to mount my exterior service box on a metal shed on the outside and run the cable down from the roof top to go into the box can I do this safely or do I need a insullated neutral in areas where they come in contact with the metal building and within easy to touch heights.
Steve

wushaw · Jul 23, 2006

I am not a liscensed electrician.
For your welder you need two 110 legs & ground.
For your box you need two 110 legs, neutral and ground.

The wire you have does not have enough wires for a panel.
Yes I would use a insulated neutral.

I am sure someone else will have a more detailed answer.

stevenf · Jul 23, 2006

I finally got a hold of an electrician and he said it would work fine but wouldn't be up to code since my entry point is the bottom of the box it would be water tight but a stand and rain head is required to meet code. I went ahead and installed it and it works fine including the GFCI 110v outlet so it can't be to bad. He said as far as the neutral/ground not being insulated it wouldn't change anything by running it thru conduit you just wouldn't see it.
Steve

patrick_g · Jul 24, 2006

There is often a difference between something that "works" and being to code. One issue to consider is if you are paying for any insurance coverage in case of a fire. If you are it may well be money wasted. If you have a fire, not neccessarily caused by NOT TO CODE wiring you can bet the insurance co will try to use that as an escape clause to avoid having to pay. Is the slight savings you perceive in taking a short cut worth the risk? If it is, then do whatever you want and good luck to you.

am risk adverse and try to not arbitrarily increase my risk for no good reason. It is NOT good odds. If I were rich enough to be self insured I'd still be guided by the spirit of if not the letter of the code. Sometimes the code is a hassle but usually it is a good thing and when todays tight fisted insurance companies are involved I'd be wary of giving them an easy out.

patrick_g

rambler · Jul 25, 2006

stevenf said:
I finally got a hold of an electrician and he said it would work fine but wouldn't be up to code since my entry point is the bottom of the box it would be water tight but a stand and rain head is required to meet code. I went ahead and installed it and it works fine including the GFCI 110v outlet so it can't be to bad. He said as far as the neutral/ground not being insulated it wouldn't change anything by running it thru conduit you just wouldn't see it.
Steve

So, you ran a hot (120), hot (120), & ground (bare) wires.

How did you get 110 out of that?

You do not have a neutral wire.

While you _can_ make it work by just using the same wire for nuetral & ground - that makes your whole place pretty dangerous.

I understand saving a buck. I'm cheap too.

Wish you had worked it out a bit more first tho. Sounds like a pretty bad setup you have there. Basically you may have electrified all bare metal surfaces everywhere under the right conditions if you did go with just the one combined wire.

That would bother me. I'd need that part done right or I wouldn't sleep right.

Maybe I don't understand exactly what you did tho.

--->Paul