New Garden need help

   / New Garden need help #11  
I have not found someone to deliver a tri axle load of manure yet. I would think it would be fresh. Good thing my neighbors aren't close by.

My guesstimate, others can give theirs, is you could use 4 yards max. for the first application, and a tiller would be your friend for mixing non-composted manure into the soil. Do you have plans for, or have a tiller?

A tractor tiller is nice I'm sure, but chances are you could only use a big tiller twice a year, spring and fall. During the growing season for weed control or succession plantings a row or two at a time, that would be too big to be useful.

BTW, not everyone agrees that tilling is the best method. I've never tested the idea but the concern is upsetting the beneficial microbial layers in the soil and killing all the earth worms--which some people purchase to put in their gardens, or raise them (vermiculture) for the castings-rich compost. I could see a "no-till" garden once you have built up the soil with plenty of organic matter which makes hand tools much easier to use. But that takes several years at least.
 
   / New Garden need help #13  
I know a lot of folks wait until spring to start garden prep, but I much prefer to amend and till in the fall. For a spring prep it looks like you are doing what needs to be done. Fresh manure is tough on plants and seeds because the nitrogen tends to dehydrate the plants. Cow manure has the least nitrogen, then horse sheep and poultry manure being the most nitrogen rich.

Fresh manure needs to be composted before application to the garden. This is especially true for cow manure because it WILL have weed seeds in it otherwise. Properly composted manure will not have any recognizable straw, seeds or shavings in it. It will be the consistency of potting soil, fine and crumbly.

Fresh manure will cause lots of top growth on your plants but they need P and K in addition to the N to make nice fruits and veggies. P for root growth and K for fruit development. Plus it stinks.

I apply any amendments in the fall and till them in. I would prefer leaf compost to manure for a spring prepped garden and wait until fall to add composted manure and or another round of leaf compost.
 
   / New Garden need help #14  
Ted, good pointers on composted manure.

I would prefer composted manure also, but if not over applied, and well integrated into the soil, I think some fresh cow manure is better than no manure. Be interesting to see what sort of manure Builder gets.

I used to get a truck load of sort of half-composted cow manure every couple of years and used that as a base material for composting leaves and such. They used wood chips for bedding, so it was a bit "woody" for a while.

I once watched a friend in Germany plant flowers-live plants-in raw cow manure muck with no soil and thought well, that is going to burn. But it didn't, and she had been doing it for years.

Something to watch for in the material that goes into your composting, killer compost: Killer Compost Update: Herbicide Damage Still a Major Problem - Organic Gardening - MOTHER EARTH NEWS
 
   / New Garden need help
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Couldn't get much done today work and rain are not a good mix. I think the manure i am going to end up with is fresh manure.Tomorrow is suppose to be nice so topsoil will be delivered and i'll be able to move the sod out. Thanks again for the help.:drink: Would you add some 10/10/10 or 19/19/19 to the soil?
 
   / New Garden need help #16  
Couldn't get much done today work and rain are not a good mix. I think the manure i am going to end up with is fresh manure.Tomorrow is suppose to be nice so topsoil will be delivered and i'll be able to move the sod out. Thanks again for the help.:drink: Would you add some 10/10/10 or 19/19/19 to the soil?
i would get it all mixed up good and do a soil sample to see what if anything you need. the 19-19-19 is some powerful fertlizer i'm not sure i would put that with the manure.
 
   / New Garden need help #17  
Personally, I'd just use the manure and compost, and know that your garden will get better every year! I have had new areas that I have started each year, and manure makes a great substrate, if mixed with the current soil. No need to add artificial anyting.
 
   / New Garden need help #18  
If the manure is fresh try 3 9 9 or similar low N fertilizer until you can determine the need for N. you can add N later as needed. Too much N is not good!
 
   / New Garden need help #19  
One thing I have learned over the years is that soil testing can be your friend. I have built several new garden spots over the years. Usually in clay and slate rock conditions. A soil test will tell you what your soil needs to be prodcuctive. Simply adding manures and compost willy nilly is just guessing at best and you can just as easily overdo the compost and manures as you can the chemical fertilizers. Different manures will have different nutrient levels. Pastured cattle manures will generally be higher in Potassium (K) and nitrogen (N) than it will be in Phosphorous (P). If the cow manure comes from a feed lot where the cattle are fatten on grain, dont be surprised if the P levels are higher than the K. The manure will be the result of what goes in and grains contain more P than K and grass contains more K than P. Horse manure is considered a balance manure with almost equal parts P&K. Chicken manures are high in N, but almost balanced in P and K. Sheep manures are similar to chicken but can contain higher N levels. Alpaca manures are very high in N, more so than either chicken or sheep.

All manures should be composted prior to using. This reduces chances of a nitrogen growth spurts and also helps reduce the chance of salmonia and eboili bacteria contamination. The compost doesnt neccesary need to be incorporated into the soil and actuall using the compost as a mulch will produce better results and help control weeds. It can be incorporated at the end of growing season when you are getting your garden ready for next year. I heavily mulch between my rows each year. it conserves moisture and provides a ready food source for the microbes. By the end of the growing season, it pretty much dirt and I just till it into the soil and plant a cover crop.

While tilling the soil helps to break it up, making everything easier to work in, excessive tilling destroys the soil structure and will create a stratisfied layer of loose soil and compacted soil. The surface just under the tilled surface will look just like the top surface, slick and smooth. If you are going to till every year, consider adding a subsoiler to your implement list to breakup the subsurface of the soil for better water penetration.

In my experience a no till garden where the seeds are just drilled in and the sod left in place between rows, will usually hold more moisture and produce more crops than a tilled and plowed garden. Especially if the rows are left wide enough to run a mower between rows. Like most folks, I dont use that method, preferring to plow and till instead. Never have figured out why I want to work harder than necessary just to grow a garden, I guess its because thats the way I was taught growing up.
 

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