New Guy needs expert advise on tractors

[Blu 82]

I am new to this world and am going thru the tractor selection process. I have read as much as I can but haven't really found good comparisons on tractor brands. Here is my situation: 125 acres, 8 acre pond, have about 50 acres in pine (15 yrs old and up) and the rest natural forest and some semi-cleared area. I would like a tractor to clear/prep an area for a house, maintain roads, clear some areas, plant maybe 10-15 acre garden for personal use and sales, mow about 10-15 acres, maintain/work on pond, put up fence, other? I believe I need 4 WD tractor with a front end loader and forks, heavy duty box blade, bush hog/mower, post-hole digger, other (backhoe)? I have been told I need a 70 HP tractor and I have looked at some between 50 and 70 HP. I have no brand loyalty and am open to almost anything except Chinese (unless someone can convince me that these are reliable, maintainable, and have good dealerships--from what I have read this isn't the case). I have personally looked at Mahindra, Kubota, MF. From what I have read and seen, the Mahindra is heavier and can lift more both w/FEL and 3 pt (so far best price); Kubota is the lightest but by all accounts is a quality tractor; MF didn't impress me and the dealer was the most expensive by far. There are also Deere dealers close and probably others. It seems almost all if not all tractors are made overseas so buying American isn't an issue and that most folks are satisfied w/whatever tractor they have (except Chinese) which doesn't make selection process easy. I want quality, reliability, parts/service availability, and a good price. Ergonomics are important but being new I think I can adapt to most things. I don't want to pay for a name. There are numerous dealers in my area (Florida panhandle). Any good advice is greatly appreciated. If you believe one brand is better than another, please state why. Thanks for the help.

 

[LarryRB]

It is advisable to mention just where you live, The reason is, many here can help steer you towards the right tractor and implements in relation to the geographical make up of your area.

 

[Blu 82]

I live in the Florida panhandle, Crestview to be exact. My land has mostly sandy areas, red clay areas, swampy areas. Hope that helps.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

From what I have read and seen, the Mahindra is heavier and can lift more both w/FEL and 3 pt

Just a word of caution, Mahindra is one of the companies that uses "pivot point" and I believe "ball eyes" measurement points for their capacities. The problem with using those points is that they make the tractor look like it will lift more than a comparable tractor from another brand. In fact, pivot point capacities are roughly 30% higher than if you measure at the industry standard 500mm (19.7") forward of the pivot point. The main reason to measure at the 500mm point is because when you carry a load INSIDE your bucket, it is, in fact, carried well forward of the pivot point. So in the real world, you want to know what the loader will lift where the load will actually exist. If you compare Mahindra to either Kubota or MF you will see that the Mahindra loader appears to carry more. Sometimes it does when you correct for "pivot point inflation" and sometimes it does not . . . it totally depends on which tractor/loader you compare it to but typically I find Mahindra is actually offering lower capacity than either of the other brands.

Mahindra use to, and perhaps still does, rate their 3pt at the ball eyes, rather than the industry standard 24" behind the ball eyes. Again, this is a real world issue. When you put an implement on your 3pt, it carries the weight well behind the ball eyes, so the 24" capacity is far more realistic, and far less misleading than a ball eye measurement.

I consider brands that rate at the pivot point or the ball eyes to be using deceptive and misleading advertising. That is just my opinion, others may disagree. However can you now see that you might have been mislead by Mahindra brochures?

If you want to "correct" for the pivot point inflation, simply multiply the capacty by 0.70 and that will give you a rough idea of the actual capacity of a load carried at roughly 20" forward of the pivot point. You can do the same to correct for the ball eye capacity inflation since the capacity at the ball eyes is roughly 30% higher than the capacity measured at 24" behind the ball eyes.

Realize I am not criticizing the tractors, just trying to explain that many of the tractor companies provide very confusing, and potentially misleading, statistics and capacities. You must be VERY careful when you compare specs between brands. The brands that I have found that are consistently most honest in providing specifications are Case/New Holland and Kubota. Massey-Ferguson and John Deere provide some capacities that I consider honest and some that I call into question. The last time I checked the specs on the Mahindras, they published capacities that I would seriously question based on real world uses.

 

[Blu 82]

Bob--thanks for that info, I was definitely unaware of the difference. I will ask the dealer to clarify those 2 specs so I ensure I am comparing apples to apples. The Mahindra dealers I have been to definitely stress that the tractor is heavier than others and can lift more. They do lead one to believe that their tractor is stronger and built "old school" (nothing fancy and built to last with stronger components). They stress that the weight of the tractor is very important to get the torque to the ground and that it is better to have the weight in the tractor/components than making a lighter tractor heavier by adding weight. I asked them about the type of metal and whether it was better/stronger than the lighter tractors but the person couldn't answer (ie a tractor made of lead may be heavier but not stronger than one made of steel). Are most tractors/frames made of cast iron?? thanks, more info helps people like me make an informed investment.

 

[Blu 82]

Bob--some quick calculations using your 70% number shows the following on the 3 tractors:

Mahindra 6520

 

[Woodbeef]

First off I'd suggest not getting too caught up in the spec sheets,only confuse you in the long run. To do what you are asking I'd say go with a mfd tractor with outboard planetary drives,not bevel gear. For brands I'd say look at Valtra,Zetor,CIH-NH,for better bang for your buck. Only seat of the pants time will tell you which one you feel most comfortable with.

 

[Blu 82]

Sorry, hit a couple buttons and it posted before I was finished. Anyway, I multiplied Mahindra #s by 70% and here is what I got:

Mahindra 6520 Kubota M7040 MF 471
3 pt lift 3570 3307 3212
FEL lift 2730 2536 don't have #s
HP 65 68 72
PTO HP 55 62 60
tractor wt 7300 4608 6305
Hyd steering 5 ? 7.1
Hyd 3 pt 11 11 4.4
Hyd Aux ? ? 11.2
Trans 12x12 8x8 8x2 (8x8 opt)
Turn radius in 153.7 135.6 ?
F-R shuttle Std Std Opt (std 8x8)

Initial quote w/FEL
$26,595 (offers 0%) ? $32,314

Also above are other specs that are different on the 3 tractors I have looked at to compare. I am not sure how important each spec is since I have never owned a tractor. Many of the other specs are same/similar for the 3 listed. Haven't checked Deere or others but will.

 

[Blu 82]

that didn't quite come out the way I typed it so the 1st # after spec description is for Mahindra, 2nd # is for Kubota, 3rd is for MF. Question mark for those specs I didn't have.

 

[patrick_g]

Blu82, Sometimes trying to figure what you can "get by with" leads you away from perfectly good or even superior solutions. The cost of ownership of a tractor is not nearly so simple as the purchase price. There is a reason why JD and Kubota are so highly acclaimed by their long time users (there are several other good brands as well, just making a point.) If heavy and strong were overwhelming factors then the Belarus would be an ultimate solution because it is a huge pile of cast iron, and really low tech. The good news is that they are repairable (if and when you can find parts) but the bad news is that you WILL be looking for parts. If your command of Russian is rusty or you are challenged by the Cyrilic alphabet that is another hurdle.

I'm sure there are happy owners of virtually every brand but sticking to the top brands increases youir chances for long term satisfaction. Do you want/need a maint challenge and have to scrounge for parts and devise work arounds?

Name brands have actuall parts availability, service, and support, not just hypothetical but the real thing. There is a reason why NAME BRANDS are in fact known as NAME BRANDS. They got there on actual performance.

The cost of ownership of a tractor includes buying, maintaining, and operating it over its useful life. Loss of use while down for a part from somewhere in the world or maybe no longer available is another consideration. If the tractor is just for fun and you'd be just as happy watching reruns on TV then buy the cheapest brand X you can find and it will keep you busy trying to keep it going, if not immediately then in a few years.

There are lots of quality tractors available. I have owned only one but have sure witnessed the foibles of many friends, neighbors, and acquaintances with brand X. One guy bought a tractor from Atwoods (on price), modified it to operate the clutch by hand as he is paraplegic, and he is down for parts 3 times in 4-5 months. The latest is a broken steering wheel.

I make no claim that Kubota is superior to other NAME brands. I own a Kubota and have been around others (as well as JD, etc.) It works well and I abuse the heck out of it. I have had to get non-scheduled maint performed due to my use of the tractor. I have NEVER had a parts availability problem.

I have 160 acres with 10 stocked fishing/stock watering ponds. I have all the implements the original poster listed plus others. I have used it to support building a new house (see Oklahoma Farm House thread at CBN) I use the tractor to log cedar trees up to 36 inches in diameter. I brush hog brush up to 2 inches in diameter and the odd tree up to 4 inches. I don't have a backhoe and can't fit a Kubota hoe because I have a cab but the A/C is worth it. I maintain gravel roads (maybe a mile and a half or so in total)

I have found a few things that beg for a bigger tractor in order to save time but most tasks are accomplished just fine. I do bring in a dozer or 4 ft bucket track hoe when the job requires. Even a huge tractor would not fit those jobs.

My tractor is 4X4 and with a standard tranny is 40 HP to the PTO but I am hydrostat and get 39 to thte PTO. There is a trade off in size and power. A larger tractor would have NOT been nearly so useful supporting the house building as you need tight manuvering ability. I find the manuverability of this Kubota to be quite an asset. It has good hydraulics, enough so that you have to do more than weight the rear wheels to use the FEL to its capability. I carry the HD box blade for ballast when doing serious FEL work.

The hydrostat can not be over rated for a general purpose tractor. If you are row cropping a standard is the right stuff but for FEL and general purpose stuff, even just loading and unloading round bales, the hydrostat on the Kubota is miraculous.

No one ever complains about their tractor being too powerful or getting the work done too quickly and sometimes I wish I had a few more HP but if it has to come in a larger package, I'll stay where I am.
Grand L-4610HSTC

I can't say another tractor isn't as good but I can say over time, all things considered, most folks will be ahead with a name brand. If tractor maint is your hobby, you can disregard a lot of the above.

If you expect to spend serious seat time in the heat and humidity the cab model with A/C is a wonderful thing. I get more done with A/C because I can stay at it.

Pat

 

[machmeter62]

I am color blind and own all three major brands; Kubota, John Deere, and New Holland. If I lived on an isolated island that required the use of only one tractor, it would be a Kubota. "THEY DON'T BREAK!!" If weight is at the top of your list, it could be the result of cheap castings with recycled metals.

 

[Soundguy]

Normally with a large acerage.. I suggest a large tractor.

Your 125 ac deffinately puts you up in the Utility area.. if not small AG.

However.. Do you have the room / clearance to get in and out of the woods like you want with a large tractor?

If not.. a 50hp unit may be a good compromise.. Large enough to pull an 8'-10' mower.. 3 bottoms of plows, and a good size disc... but not so huge to make getting into the woods a problem.

Lots of good info here.

Soundguy

I am new to this world and am going thru the tractor selection process. I have read as much as I can but haven't really found good comparisons on tractor brands. Here is my situation: 125 acres, 8 acre pond, have about 50 acres in pine (15 yrs old and up) and the rest natural forest and some semi-cleared area. I would like a tractor to clear/prep an area for a house, maintain roads, clear some areas, plant maybe 10-15 acre garden for personal use and sales, mow about 10-15 acres, maintain/work on pond, put up fence, other? I believe I need 4 WD tractor with a front end loader and forks, heavy duty box blade, bush hog/mower, post-hole digger, other (backhoe)? I have been told I need a 70 HP tractor and I have looked at some between 50 and 70 HP. I have no brand loyalty and am open to almost anything except Chinese (unless someone can convince me that these are reliable, maintainable, and have good dealerships--from what I have read this isn't the case). I have personally looked at Mahindra, Kubota, MF. From what I have read and seen, the Mahindra is heavier and can lift more both w/FEL and 3 pt (so far best price); Kubota is the lightest but by all accounts is a quality tractor; MF didn't impress me and the dealer was the most expensive by far. There are also Deere dealers close and probably others. It seems almost all if not all tractors are made overseas so buying American isn't an issue and that most folks are satisfied w/whatever tractor they have (except Chinese) which doesn't make selection process easy. I want quality, reliability, parts/service availability, and a good price. Ergonomics are important but being new I think I can adapt to most things. I don't want to pay for a name. There are numerous dealers in my area (Florida panhandle). Any good advice is greatly appreciated. If you believe one brand is better than another, please state why. Thanks for the help.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Probably not the suggestion you're looking for YET... (Just wait! It'll get a grip on you before long ) But you and your 125 acres are a prime candidate for 2 (or MANY more) tractors. One smaller to mid-sized utility (something in the 45 to 60 HP range) and a bigger (maybe 100+ HP) model. Anyones guess as to which would be the better loader tractor. I personally would prefer a loader on a bigger tractor, but the smaller one would lend itself to being "handy" with a loader. Big HP in the form of a used farm tractor can end up being as cheap, or even cheaper than a small tractor. It's nice to have 2 tractors at times so you can leave certain implements hooked up without the need to switch back and forth.

Don't you love the way we all spend your money?!?!?

 

[Blu 82]

Patrick G--I fully appreciate your pt--quality is important to me and I believe that there are tractors of varying quality. That is why I am asking the questions. Also, I agree that maintenance is important and parts avail. And weight just to have weight doesn't make me want to buy that brand. I guess what I need from the group is your expertise on these as far as some of the brands are concerned. I plan to stay away from the Chinese brands for the reasons u state but do those problems apply to Mahindra, MF, others? Have folks had quality, parts availability with the Mahindra or other brands? If so what brands.

If someone can tell me that the extra weight of the Mahindra is bad because the metal is of poor quality or that it isn't as strong as the Kubota which is much lighter or that the weight isn't necessary and will significantly hurt fuel economy, then that helps me w/my decision. If someone knows that the Mahindra's extra weight is better (same material as other tractors w/same strength) and those "beefier" parts are better to do the work, then that helps. I need folks expertise on these types of specifics. If Kubota is equal in quality to MF and they are both less expensive than Mahindra than that helps w/the process of elimination. But if Mahindra is as good in quality and I can get parts and it is less expensive, then that helps my decision. I haven't seen the other brands so that is why I haven't really mentioned them.

From what I have read, it appears that Deere has quality but you are paying quite a bit for the name (when there is really just as good tractors elsewhere). From what I have heard it really isn't American made so that isn't an issue. Also, I have heard that JD parts are very expensive.

Kubota seems to be as good quality as Deere but I haven't really compared specs/prices yet. The quality of Japanese cars is a good example of their quality I would think.

MF (made in Brazil) seemed to be expensive at first glance and didn't seem to be better than the Kubota or Mahindra.

Also, can someone speak the ability of any/all brands to burn biodiesel?

Again, I don't have a brand preference and don't want to pay for a name. I am, probably like most nu folks looking for the best overall pkg for the price. Something that will do the work, not take all my money in initial cost/maintenance/parts and cost of parts/fuel and operating costs/etc. I have read a lot but unfortunately haven't really seen specifics that would put most of the brands significantly ahead of others (except for the Chinese/Eastern Bloc tractors). I am aggressively looking for those nuggets of info that will help with this very expensive investment and I know there are a lot of folks that have a lot of expertise. Also, if you respond and are in the tractor business please identify yourself as such so that can be weighed (ie Mahindra/Deere/Kubota dealer).

 

[redlevel]

I would say, like Soundguy, a minimum of 50hp. Probably 65-75hp would be better.

Are you dead set on a new tractor? I don't know exactly where Crestview is, but I bet there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of 50 to 90hp tractors for sale used within 100 miles of you. Over the last 35 years I have bought at least 30 used farm tractors, mostly in the 50-75hp range, and I have been burned exactly once. I knew better than to buy the one I got burned on. Most of the tractors were sold for as much as or more than I paid for them, several after 3 or 4 years of use. Most of these were Ford, New Holland, or Massey Ferguson tractors.

You say you "need" 4wd and a loader. They are both nice things to have, and if you ever figure to handle any hay, the loader is almost a must. I have seen several new tractor owners literally destroy a good tractor using a front loader to clear land. The tractors nor the loaders are meant for this kind of work. Hire somebody with a backhoe to come in and do it. I had a Kubota M6800 with 4wd and loader. I started trying to clear some light brush, privet and scrub oak mostly. After a couple of hours, I saw that I would be much better off to call my friend with his backhoe. Paid him about $1000 and figured I was much better off.

I realize loaders are very handy and are useful for much more than land clearing. I'll give you a little perspective on the weight issue and loaders. I owned both the Kubota M6800 4wd and a NH 6640 2wd with loader. I think the Kubota was rated at around 62-65 hp and the NH at about 75hp. I could pick up one of my 1200 lb bales on the loader with the NH, without a bale on the rear, and have no problems. If I tried to do that with the Kubota, the rear wheels (with water in them) would clear the ground if you hit a little bump. In fact, we quit trying to move two bales at the time with the Kubota, because it was downright frightening. The heavier NH, as well as another NH 6610, which is nearer the same hp rating as the Kubota, handled two of the bales with no adventures.

If I owned your farm I would be looking for a bargain on a used Ford/NH 3930 or larger. I have a 3930 now, and it is a heck of a lot of tractor for the $10K I paid for it with 800 hours. I could add a loader and still have less than $15K in it. Of course, it doesn't have a shuttle transmission or any of the other bells and whistles, and it is at the very low end of your hp requirements. It has draft control, so you can plow with it. It will handle a heavy duty 6ft. 3 pt hitch bushhog, or pull an 8-10 ft pull type mower. It will handle 3 bottom plows and pull an 8 ft. disc. It will maintain its resale value as well as any tractor on the market, especially in your area.

There are certainly other brands and models that you could say the same about, I'm just familar with NH. Of course, you can spend $30K for a new tractor.

 

[Blu 82]

Farmwithjunk/Redlevel--I haven't checked used. I don't feel like I have the expertise to tell a good deal from bad, poorly maintained unit from good, or a broken tractor from not broken. Because of that lack of expertise, I am planning on buying new--however plans can change. I guess if I knew exactly what brand/model of tractor (new or used) then I could seriously make a comparison of a used specific tractor to a new one.

Some folks I have talked to have said that used seemed to be expensive compared to buying new--however, several of those folks have just bought their first tractor. I do have a friend that recently bought a NH used for a good price but he just happened upon it and couldn't turn it down.

As for more than one tractor, well lets get the first one first. I am generally looking for a good all around tractor so that I won't need another any time soon.

And yes, I have had a dealer tell me that a tractor is not a bulldozer and that I shouldn't use it as such. I have to believe that a tractor can clear some brush, and dig small trees w/FEL though. I have talked to others that have done so (maybe wrongly).

Keep that advice coming and please be as specific as possible. thanks to all who have answered. I hope this thread will help more than me.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

The tractors you are looking at are larger than the tractors I play with, so I can't comment if your choices are "apples to apples" comparisions, but you should realize that many tractor brands have multiple lines that overlap in SOME capacities but may not be the ideal line to compare to another brand's machine that is in a different type of line. YOU need to ask a lot of questions of your dealers. YOU also need to make sure that the dealer tells you the truth!!! Many dealers don't understand their own specs, let alone the specs of the competition.

As for inferior metal versus superior metal, that is one issue that many people suspect may be the case with some brands, but nobody can actually answer that.

As for your comments about the Deere tractors not being made in the US, then you are probably wrong. Deere has been moving more and more of their tractor production to the US. It is true that Yanmar (an extremely high quality manufacturer) built many of the smaller and mid size CUTs (but JD is moving production of many smaller tractors back to the US), but in the size range you are looking at I think you may find that most of those are US origin.

As for capacities and raw weight, those are issues that are TASK dependant. If you are going to plow, you need traction and weight is the easy way to get it. If you are going to mow or till, you need PTO horsepower and weight may be a disadvantage or at least not an advantage.

If you want to lift things then you need balance and capacity. I can point out many light tractors that will lift more than heavy tractors. But don't get hung up on capacity, as long as it meets your needs then it is going to get your work done. What I didn't want to see you fall into the trap of is to think that your tractor will lift 2000# when you buy it because you have things that weigh 2000# but then you find out that the 2000# capacity was the pivot point capacity and you really only have about 1400# of in bucket capacity so you can't do what you really needed to do. Again, it is easy to get stuck on capacities, just make sure they meet your needs.

 

[jeffghs]

Blu 82,
Some other brands to look at would be Kioti, Farmtrac/Montana, and of course Case/New Holland. Another thing to consider with purchase is if you need to finance, buying new most brands offer 0%. If you are paying outright, you may be able to make a better deal on used. Another thing to consider would be going to the Sunbelt Ag Expo next month in Moultrie, GA. You will likely see just about every brand there, and maybe even find a deal as most manufacturers are represented there. It's about a 3 hour drive from where you are, so it could be doable as a day trip up. Also, the time is coming for a lot of fairs and festivals where you tend to see some displays and all, I know the fair in Mobile has a couple set up, the Pensacola fair may have some as well.

 

[otecotec111]

Hi people! Very many thanks for a good work on this forum. It is True Have a nice Day.
____________________
KanaomiS - Good luck everybody

 

[DavesTractor]

Blu82,
You're getting some good advice, but we don't want to lump the Mahindra in with the Belarus or similar tractors. Mahindras are heavy, they are stable and they do lift a lot. Bob Skurka brings up the issue of how specs are measured. To compare, you must make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Even so, a 7520 Mahindra rated at 3900 lbs at the pivot pins still lifts a bunch, but it does lift less at the bucket center. Traction is a huge thing for most tractor work, and weight is your friend. Mahindra's are built heavy by design and by intended usage...not because they can't make a light tractor. Compare the weight of a 75HP Mahindra to a 90HP Deere or Kubota. It's an interesting study.

The Big 3 make good tractors, but so does Mahindra, Branson and a few others. The dealer network is not yet as established, but it is growing quickly. Parts are very readily available. Don't shy away from a Mahindra if it fits your needs.