New Holland TN75D Clutch /Pressure plate issues.

[spedracr89]

Looking for ideas on what would cause the main clutch arms to break the fingers off the pressure plate after 1 year of install. Also how or why would there be water in the back and bottom of the bell housing area of the transmission? Trying to figure out what is wrong or needs corrected before replacing the whole clutch assambly.

 

[5030]

Does the tractor sit outside in the rain is my first question. Clutch fingers usually fail from not enough free play prior to engagement. If it sits outside in the weather you need to modify the drain plug so it will evacuate water as it collects.

 

[spedracr89]

Does the tractor sit outside in the rain is my first question. Clutch fingers usually fail from not enough free play prior to engagement. If it sits outside in the weather you need to modify the drain plug so it will evacuate water as it collects.

Yes the tractor sits outside 24/7. "Clutch fingers usually fail from not enough free play prior to engagement" So you are talking clutch pedal height adjustment since it is the main clutch fingers?

 

[5030]

In the rain I take it? Where your water issue is coming from, especially if the gear shift or range shift boots are compromised. Had that happen on one of my open station M's a couple years back. I replaced the boots with new ones but then my units stay inside. Compromised boots also allow dirt to get in the gearbox as well. In reality no tractor is water tight.

 

[5030]

So you are talking clutch pedal height adjustment since it is the main clutch fingers?

The specification on my Kubota's is 1/2" of free play at the clutch pedal and if it sits outside all the time you need to block the clutch pedal down so the clutch is actuated when not in use. Manual clutches have a bad habit of freezing to the pressure plate if left sitting not engaged (clutch released) for a period of time.

 

[spedracr89]

In the rain I take it? Where your water issue is coming from, especially if the gear shift or range shift boots are compromised. Had that happen on one of my open station M's a couple years back. I replaced the boots with new ones but then my units stay inside. Compromised boots also allow dirt to get in the gearbox as well. In reality no tractor is water tight.

Well it is an enclosed cab however one of the doors has a broken glass so both doors have been removed. So it is possable for rain to get into the cab area. Will check the shift boots for damage. Will look for the drain plug and see about modifying it.

 

[5030]

If it has a drain plug in the bellhousing, remove it and drill a suitable sized hole to accept a short length of steel drill rod, peen the one end over and drop it in the hole so it sits inside the bell housing.. That way any moisture that collects in the bell housing can escape when the tractor moves and the rod wiggles in the drilled hole. That is how Kubota addresses the issue and it works very well.

 

[spedracr89]

So follow-up, think the bearing that rides againts the pressure plate fingers was installed wrong. The groove side was installed towards the transmission instead of the pressure plate. Being told that the groove side should be towards the pressure plate. Is that correct?

 

[Harry in Ky]

I've replaced a number of clutches in TN series tractors, along with the respective release bearings. Depending on the supplier, the main clutch release bearing may or may not come with a new contact sleeve already installed that rides against the pressure plate levers. Those supplied by New Holland do, as so do some from other suppliers. I am not aware that a new replacement bearing could be installed backwards. Of all the tractors I've done I have yet to hear of any that failed due to my having made that mistake.

Where does your information come from regarding this fact?

 

[spedracr89]

I've replaced a number of clutches in TN series tractors, along with the respective release bearings. Depending on the supplier, the main clutch release bearing may or may not come with a new contact sleeve already installed that rides against the pressure plate levers. Those supplied by New Holland do, as so do some from other suppliers. I am not aware that a new replacement bearing could be installed backwards. Of all the tractors I've done I have yet to hear of any that failed due to my having made that mistake.

Where does your information come from regarding this fact?

So to clarift I am not a tractor expert and more than likely will call some things by the wrong name. I took some pictures and will attach as many I as can to help clarify what I am saying.
Few questions/answers.
1. "new contact sleeve" How can I tell if the current one has the new conatct sleeve?
2. "new replacement bearing could be installed backwards" After looking at the part again it was not the bearing but the housing that the bearing is installed. It is the smaller of the two bearing holders.
3. "Where does your information come from regarding this fact?" Someone who stopped by and was able to look at the parts. Then I was told by someone else what was said. So I might have been told wrong or misunderstood. That is why I am asking here.

So here are 5 pics. Have high res versions available if needed.
1. Is the bearing_installed_order pic correct or is one or both backwards?
2. The back_side_pressure_plate showing the broken ears on the pressure plate.
3. Does the wear spots on the shaft in Needs_replaced_or_still_ok_to_use picture show enough wear to cause issues and needs the shaft replaced?
4. The "This_side_to_pressure_plate_ears_1" picture is the one I was refering too in the "The groove side was installed towards the transmission" statement above.

 

[Harry in Ky]

I see five photos. The first one appears to be the back side of one of your throw out bearings, probably the smaller, main clutch bearing (size is deceiving with no frame of reference ). The second one looks to be the front side (goes against pressure plate levers) of (probably) the larger bearing? Again actual size is hard to determine. Third picture is the pressure plate assembly with three levers damaged. . The fourth photo is of both bearing assemblies. The back (transmission) side of both would be to the left of the photo, the front (pressure plate side would be facing the right side of the photo. Fifth photo is of the PTO shaft. It shows some spline wear and some wear at the point the shaft fits into the pilot bearing. That wear would indicate the tractor ran for some time with a very rough, probably sticking/skipping pilot bearing at one time. I would check the fit of a new pilot bearing onto that shaft before installing anything. Is the spline wear enough to justify replacing the shaft? Unless your plans include mostly heavy PTO work for the rest of the tractor's life, I would say no. The pilot bearing area might be a different concern. If it's a super sloppy fit into the bearing, you will need to do something.

 

[spedracr89]

I see five photos. The first one appears to be the back side of one of your throw out bearings, probably the smaller, main clutch bearing (size is deceiving with no frame of reference ). The second one looks to be the front side (goes against pressure plate levers) of (probably) the larger bearing? Again actual size is hard to determine. Third picture is the pressure plate assembly with three levers damaged. . The fourth photo is of both bearing assemblies. The back (transmission) side of both would be to the left of the photo, the front (pressure plate side would be facing the right side of the photo. Fifth photo is of the PTO shaft. It shows some spline wear and some wear at the point the shaft fits into the pilot bearing. That wear would indicate the tractor ran for some time with a very rough, probably sticking/skipping pilot bearing at one time. I would check the fit of a new pilot bearing onto that shaft before installing anything. Is the spline wear enough to justify replacing the shaft? Unless your plans include mostly heavy PTO work for the rest of the tractor's life, I would say no. The pilot bearing area might be a different concern. If it's a super sloppy fit into the bearing, you will need to do something.

*The first two photos are the same piece so if I am understanding you correctly the 2nd picture should be against the pressure plates levers. So if it was installed the other way that might explain why it broke the ears off.

"The fourth photo is of both bearing assemblies. The back (transmission) side of both would be to the left of the photo, the front (pressure plate side would be facing the right side of the photo."

*Ok I understand you are saying I have them setting completly wrong. As they set on the tire the pressure plate is to the left and the transmission is to the right. So it sounds like they need a 180 then they would be correct.


" That wear would indicate the tractor ran for some time with a very rough, probably sticking/skipping pilot bearing at one time. I would check the fit of a new pilot bearing onto that shaft before installing anything. Is the spline wear enough to justify replacing the shaft? Unless your plans include mostly heavy PTO work for the rest of the tractor's life, I would say no."

*The tractor is used to run a 6ft sickle bar mower on about 200 acers of grass split up in 3 different locations. Then a 4x5 round baler doing about 200 + bales of hay 2 to 3 times a year. So I would say 50 to 75% PTO use.

 

[Harry in Ky]

If that's the case, then yes, I think you had both bearings in backwards. The wider, hardened surfaces on each of the sleeves should contact the levers.

The shaft condition is a judgement call. The spline wear is noticeable, yes, but in my opinion not necessarily a "must do" repair. It does seem a bit strange to me the spline length and placement of the worn spots. I don't remember the splined portion of the shaft being as long as it appears in the photo. The PTO disc contacts the flywheel when engaged, so the center hub would be much closer to the pilot bearing than it would be to the worn spots. Somehow this just doesn't seem quite right to me, but it has been a while since I was "hands on" with one.

At any rate, the shaft is about a $500 item, and will require significant effort to replace. It comes out the back of the transmission, so a rear split would be in order. With a straddle mount cab this is no simple feat. I'm sure the "book" calls for cab removal for this operation. Having never done it, I can't say if it's possible or not without removing the cab. I doubt it.

If I were doing this, I would probably try to address the pilot bearing contact surface as best as possible with the shaft where it is, hope for the best in that regard and call it good at that.

Your tractor, your money, your choice.