New Holland TS110 Knocking Badly Need help in diagnosis

crbearden · Sep 11, 2014

HELP!

My TS110 started rattling then severe knocking while pulling the 8 ft Rototiller. It was not in the PTO, or anything external. I don't know for sure if it is the engine or in the transmission, but it sounds like a sledgehammer and even resonates in the hood when it is up. It started a very fast rattle running at 2000rpm, I was wearing ear protection so did not hear it immediately, or should I say detect what the problem was. By the time I shut down the PTO and raised the loader a little, it was really banging. I checked everything outside, but found nothing. I started it up at 800 RPM for about 5 seconds, and with the hood up, the banging was resonating in the hood..... I drained the oil and found no shavings etc. I refilled with new oil. I stuck a long rod up in the drain plug to see if something was in the pan and found nothing..
Tractor has 2500 hrs on it, I have had it for about 1000 hrs and have maintained the filters, oil changes, etc. like it should be... Serial in hood is attached. I would appreciate if anyone has had experience with this model or had this happen before. This is the first time I have had an internal engine failure in over 45 years, and I hav ran a lot of equipment....:confused3:

TractorTech · Sep 19, 2014

16x16 transmission? Sound coming from the bell housing maybe?

crbearden · Sep 19, 2014

A posting from a New Holland Tech on the British Farming Forum stated that he had never experienced a crank failure on any of the 304T engines. He also suggested the PTO drive plate which bolts to the flywheel plate. In retrospect, this tractor has been used on the PTO powered baler nearly 90% of the hours I have used it. I now believe that this tractor was an OKDOT mowing contractor machine. Probably on the boom mower as the tires appeared to be original... Just a typical problem with a used tractor and an unscrupulous dealer not to mention an uncaring manufacturer. Sorry, I will stop ranting....

TractorTech · Sep 19, 2014

That is what I was leaning towards because of the tiller PTO work. I agree that it wasn't the primary cause from you, but if it has been doing PTO work most of its life, then 2500 hours isn't terrible. Other than not disclosing prior work, don't blame the dealer. There is no crystal ball for looking at the internals of the drivetrain of a used tractor. You got 1000 hours out of it and that is sometimes the gamble you take on used equipment. Sorry for your problem.

RickB · Sep 19, 2014

The manufacturer slam is uncalled for as well. That powertrain is durable, well respected, and in production for several decades throughout many model series. Failures occur, sometimes without reasonable explanation.

crbearden · Sep 20, 2014

I do not really think I am being too hard on this tractor in my expectations as I have 3other tractors bought used many years ago, and they have over 7000 hrs on them now and the only problem has been with the a/c in the cab. I worked as a mechanic in a tractor dealership during my high school and college days, and maintained a fleet of rental tractors. We had much better service from Ford, MF and David Brown tractors than this tractor has given me.

I should also note that this tractor had an injection pump failure at 1450 hours also. This was only 40 hrs after I traded for it. The dealer just said " too bad". I discussed the troubles with this tractor with the New Holland Customer Service department and was told that since the repairs had been done outside of he dealership, they could not give any assistance. This was not the way business was done when I worked in the dealership. Both Mf and David Brown took care of failures past warranty even if repairs were mad outside of the dealership.

A little background:
The clutchless shuttle is the reason I bought this tractor. I am partially disabled with a condition called Spinal stenosis. This is a compression of the spinal cord due to narrowing of the vertebrae. My problem is in the lumbar area. This causes me to have only 20% of the strength in my legs than a normal person. It is getting harder each year to operate the clutch. The NH allows me to stop the forward travel of the tractor so my baler can wrap a bale, without using the clutch. I do this by only moving the lever from forward to neutral. The NH will start up easier than I can let out the clutch also. I have spent a lot of time and money on this tractor to keep it maintained. I put about 250 hrs a year on it.

The tractors that get the abuse is the 2 Belarus tractors that load my round bales. I have operated them for 5 years each and have spent less than $300 on repairs for both. They were both bought used.
With the technology of lubricants and the metallurgy available now , I do not feel it is unreasonable to expect a tractor to operate for 5000 hrs or more without a major repair. A tractor is a major investment, and should last like one.
I should also be able to find out where this tractor was delivered and who it was originally sold to. Both the dealer whose stickers are on it and the manufacturer say this is not possible.

If I could find a good cab for my 930 diesel CASE with the hand clutch, it would become my baling tractor and this NH would go to a sale.

RickB · Sep 20, 2014

Manufacturer support is vastly different now than when you were a young adult. Both MF and DB have long since been devoured by larger, multibrand corporations after flirting with, or being squarely in bankruptcy. Your experience with this TS110 is atypical.

You could be experiencing a dynamic balancer failure, especially if previous owners neglected engine oil drain intervals, or ignored engine oil specifications. That would hardly be the tractor's fault. Or a problem somewhere in the PTO driveline which is resonating to the front of the tractor. Genesis engines are regarded as being durable, especially the 4 cylinder and derated 6 cylinder variants.

Putting a decent air conditioned cab on a Case 930 will be a real science project. Probably cost about 4 times what the tractor is worth right now.

TractorTech · Sep 20, 2014

"The good old days" of the kind of customer service are long gone, but the injection pump failure was probably due to poor fuel, water in the fuel, not changing the filter or all three. Knowing the previous owner/history isn't going to change that. Today's pumps are much more sensitive to contaminants because of closer tolerances required for emissions standards. Not the tractor manufacturers fault, but definitely the owners, previous and present, responsibility.

Like Rick B. says, the TS series and Genesis engines have a great track record. They are built heavier than most mainstream competition. Again, buying used is sometimes the luck of the draw. I just worked with a customer that has a John Deere 5000 series that failed a rear axle bearing in the first 500 hours. Even though we live in an era of higher quality and cleaner assembly conditions, humans still are the variable in the whole scheme of things and manufacturing is not perfect.

I'm not blaming you, but the problems are most likely the result of the previous owner. If the same outfit owned your Belarus or Case, you might have experienced similar expenses.

RickB · Sep 20, 2014

TractorTech said:
That is what I was leaning towards because of the tiller PTO work. I agree that it wasn't the primary cause from you, but if it has been doing PTO work most of its life, then 2500 hours isn't terrible. Other than not disclosing prior work, don't blame the dealer. There is no crystal ball for looking at the internals of the drivetrain of a used tractor. You got 1000 hours out of it and that is sometimes the gamble you take on used equipment. Sorry for your problem.

16x16 transmission has only 1 input for drive, hydraulics and PTO. A failed torque limiter, especially one that gave up while powering a rototiller, is certainly not out of the question. On the flip side, we recently replaced one for the first time in an 8260 with over 12,000 hours.

crbearden · Sep 21, 2014

I believe you all now understand my frustration with this tractor and dealer. The support from the dealer and manufacturer is just a sad example of the mindset of corporate America.

RickB thank you for explaining the drive on the 16 x 16. After I replaced the injection pump I followed this tractor model on the British Farming Forums and I found that this model was praised for its durability. I then accepted the inj. pump failure to be just a fluke. However, another "fluke" and I am out of business. This last failure will not just cost me the repair, but the loss of hay sales that usually pay my fuel, parts, feed, and insurance bills. By the time I get a replacement tractor going, I have lost a hay crop. I can't afford to rent anything that is available.

I agree that installing a decent air conditioned cab on a 930 may be a project, and more expense than the tractor is worth on the auction market, but I already own the 930, and its simplicity and durability far exceed the NH. If I invest $5K in an Air conditioned cab, then I have a tractor that will pull my baler dependably for $5k. That would be a savings of nearly $30K over the NH. In my baling operation, I normally am not changing speeds I just set the tractor in 1H and go. A steady pace will yield the most output. I can see the 930 running in 3 or 4 to operate my 648 NH baler. A cab is a necessity due to the side effects of the medication I must take for back pain. It causes this Oklahoma sun to feel like a blowtorch on me.... I have a 7030 Allis I am currently trying to get ready to pull the baler and swather. Its main drawback is the cab door post is too close to the steering wheel for me to easily pass between. I am trying to build a quick change steering wheel so I can enter and exit the cab easily. I have already modified the steps so I can climb in. Those 1 inch wide loops were a little too small to fit both boots in....

I have found a retired Ford mechanic about 70 miles away who has agreed to split the tractor and help me find the problem. He will not be able to get to it until the end of October. If I tried to do this much work on it, it would probably take me until the end of October to get it back together.

I appreciate all the tech advice you guys give for free here. I hope that this will be the last major repair I have to make on this tractor.

If it was a horse, I would shoot it!!!