New(ish) Kubota M62 With Filthy Hydraulic Oil

[mtputney]

Kubota M62 With High Insolubles in Hydraulic Oil

We have a pretty new Kubota M62 with just about 200 hours.

I was changing the hydraulic and transmission oil filters and took a look at the oil itself. It looked much dirtier than I had ever seen in our other machines. I could actually see thousands of tiny dark particles floating and swirling in the oil.

See attached picture – new Kubota UDT2 is on the right and our used (200 hours) is on the left.

I sent a specimen off for analysis (also attached), which confirmed that the insolvables are 0.4% which is above the recommended maximum of less than 0.1%. This has me pretty confused in such a new machine…

• Is this normal? Having to change the oil at 200 hours...
• Any thoughts on the cause of this?
• Has anyone seen this before?
• I’m going to change the oil and the filters – anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[nybirdman]

About all you can do for now,I would advise your dealer.Hope it works out.

 

[crashz]

I was expecting to see some water in the analysis. It looks cloudy like it has emulsified a little. Is the machine new to you? Do you know the history? Maybe somebody couldn't make the payments so they parked it in a creek or something?

That mess is all throughout the tractor, loader and backhoe. I'd be tempted to change the fluid a few times with some cheaper stuff (regular UDT??) then final fill with Super UDT2.

 

[Carl_NH]

That oil does not look good at all - did you do the recommended 50 hour service and what was the oil color then? Usually you can expect a slight discoloration and maybe some fine metal particles but nothing this cloudy or dirty.

Also, are you interchanging different implements like grapples, hammers, plows etc. with other types of oil in them?

 

[M59]

Kubota M62 With High Insolubles in Hydraulic Oil

We have a pretty new Kubota M62 with just about 200 hours.

I was changing the hydraulic and transmission oil filters and took a look at the oil itself. It looked much dirtier than I had ever seen in our other machines. I could actually see thousands of tiny dark particles floating and swirling in the oil.

See attached picture – new Kubota UDT2 is on the right and our used (200 hours) is on the left.

I sent a specimen off for analysis (also attached), which confirmed that the insolvables are 0.4% which is above the recommended maximum of less than 0.1%. This has me pretty confused in such a new machine…

• Is this normal? Having to change the oil at 200 hours...
• Any thoughts on the cause of this?
• Has anyone seen this before?
• I’m going to change the oil and the filters – anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

mtputney,

If you bought the M62 new from a dealer then I would be returning the machine to them and have them flush the system, extend the warranty and explain why the system is contaminated.

If you bought the machine used then prior owner may have sold machine to get rid a problem. I can think of no good reason why there is so much calcium in the hydraulic fluid and points to outside contamination ( possibly intentional ). The phosphorus is also high and would point to either outside contamination or wear of bushings of nickel plated items.

Both calcium and phosphorus may point to someone dumped another INCOMPATIBLE lubricant into the hydraulic storage tank either in error or intentionally

Either way, I would flush the hydraulics 3 times and then retest and then again after six months.

Link to useful web site on lubricant analysis

Oil additives – functions & typical concentrations. What do calcium, phosphorus, zinc, molybdenum and oil additives do in your lube oil? - LEARN OIL ANALYSIS

The below list is a general guide for additive concentrations in lubricating oils. This list is not definitive and with the recent emergence of Nano-technology and ashless additives that are not metal based the variation between different additive packages formulations will change greatly. The...

learnoilanalysis.com

Good luck

 

[Locoweed]

Could some bad oil have come from a attachment?

 

[BeezFun]

The analysis normally comes with a narrative that describes possible causes for the observed results. Did you get that with your analysis? If it were engine oil I would say it's likely it got way too hot, but hydraulic fluid shouldn't get anywhere near that hot unless something is really wrong. It's more likely there is water contamination that reacted with some of the additives, or the filter stuck in bypass mode and wasn't filtering the oil.

 

[rScotty]

It sure looks like water in hydraulic oil. Was this tractor in a flood?

 

[RjCorazza]

That doesn't look good at all for 200 hours.
I would recommend also going over to BobIsTheOilGuy.com and see if you can find some uoa's to compare your results with.

 

[rScotty]

Is this normal? Having to change the oil at 200 hours...

• Any thoughts on the cause of this?
• Has anyone seen this before?
• I’m going to change the oil and the filters – anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

No, not normal. Mine at 600 hours looks pretty much the same as it did when new.

It sure looks like water. Any chance this tractor was in a flood? Have you looked at the vent?

Yes, all mechanics see water from time to time - especially in trans/hydraulic oil in tractors that have a common shared sump for transmission & hydraulic oil. Rain water traveling down the shift levers and then into the transmission is thought to be a source. Obviously in a flood the vent would be the suspect. Pure hydraulic systems without transmissions or wet clutches or brakes are pretty well sealed except for the vent.

Yes. Change it several times. And you should know that hydraulic fluid can withstand a surprising amount of water. Yours doesn't actually look so bad. I've seen far worse with no damage. Far worse.

The particles could simply be from your internal wet brakes. Any idea as to the composition of the particles? That's what I would concentrate on. I would also want a size on the particles, and would compare that with whatever is trapped on your old (or new) filter element.

As for the chemical analysis of the unknown solutes in an unknown hydraulic fluid with unknown additives and unknown contamination - well it could be anything. Good on you for getting an analysis - but how can anyone possibly compare dissolved compounds when the composition of hydraulic fluids & factory additives is not known?
All those light metals are common additive elements.

If you want to do some detective work to put your mind at ease, I say go for the particles. You may be able to put your mind at rest there. Look at size, microscopy (you do have a microscope?), magnetism, reflectivity, shape....
You can generally settle particles just by letting a sample set for days to weeks and then siphoning off fluid until you can siphon up the particles. 20/30 days of settling is considered to be better than any but lab quality filtration for separating particles.

luck, rScotty