new lawn help

[ktm250rider]

Im putting in a new lawn in central New Hampshire. Ive got very hard ground full of rocks. Ive got it pretty smooth but there are still many large rocks that are buried. I have a loam pile still to spread. My rake doesnt really penetrate the ground at all. I figure Ill have to dig out the big rocks next year.
Ive read many of the posts on installing lawns. Many recommend harrowing or box blading to break up the ground. Problem is, I dont have one and would like to not buy one. However, I really dont want to have to plant it again because I didnt prep correctly.
So, Do you think I can get away with spreading the pile of loam and then fertilizing and seeding?

 

[PBinWA]

You should check with your local Bobcat dealership and see if you can rent a skidsteer with an attachment called a "soil conditioner". Combined you are probably looking at a $400-500/day rental but unless you are putting in a huge lawn that should be all you need. You can find out about the Bobcat "soil conditioner" on the Bobcat web site.

 

[Egon]

What type of rake do you have?

 

[ktm250rider]

Not sure of the name but its a 7 foot york type rake with gage wheels. The ground is hard enough that you cant stand a shovel up by stomping it into the ground.
Its not very big now, only the front of the house. Problem is, then I have to do the sides and back. just trying to get the front done this year.

 

[Defective]

If I was working in soil too hard to plant a shovel, I'd seriously think about putting a major effort into breaking it up before doing anything else.

 

[rswyan]

Problem is, I dont have one and would like to not buy one. However, I really dont want to have to plant it again because I didnt prep correctly.

Yeah's that's probably wise - pappy always used to say that anything worth doing is worth doing right ......

I dunno how big of a project this is, but have you considered asking if any local TBN'ers would consider pitching in to help with this project ? Perhaps you could return the favor to them when the time comes.

I've been lucky enough to have tremendous help from two local TBN friends here with several projects around the place. The wife and I helped one put up a 26' x 48' run-in shed for hay storage and a cattle shelter this last weekend. This next weekend we'll help the other transplant 53 pine trees. Just a thought.

"None survive alone."

 

[Egon]

From the sounds of your soil condition it is very dry and planting a new lawn would be a waste of time till there is more moisture avalable.

The rake should help in scarifieing the soil and help level the dirt you are going to spread.

 

[rickmacheske]

I'm somewhat in the same situation. The builder planted a "lawn" around my house when I moved in. Unfortunately, he thought he could just plant a lawn in what I would term fill and rocks after rockhounding the first inch or so. You can guess what it looks like. Looks fine in the early spring when there is a lot of rain except for the areas that rocks have made it to the surface. I put topsoil that was heavy in organic material down in one area on top and replanted last fall. Looked great for the spring again. When summer hit it was obvious that the 2-3" of top soil couldn't hold the moisture and now it looks like it did before. I've started tilling the entire yard down 8" a little piece at a time and mixing in organic material. The hard part is removing all the rock. I figure I fill the FEL with handpicked rock every 9 square feet or so and have created a large rock pile already with the small area that I've completed. The area that I have finished is staying spongy and moist. I would definitely recommend removing the rock and tilling as deep as you can before putting down top soil and seeding. If you're going to just put the top soil on top of your rocks and clay I would suggest 6 to 8" of top soil. Just my opinion.

 

[Thomas]

Morning ktm250rider.
That's why were known as the grantie state...we grow good rocks.
Maybe you could rent a small dozer w/good operator and get it all done at once,than rake the ground off etc..

 

[ktm250rider]

Well, gonna try a box blade to loosen up the soil since I cant seem to find a rental place with 3pth tillers available.

Of couse if i had that backhoe ive been itching for, i could pluck all the rocks out of the ground.

 

[Mudhen]

Honey, is that you? Are YOU ktm250rider???

If you tell me you have a Mahindra 2015 you're going to really freak me out - and I'm gonna be pissed that you've had a KTM all these years and not let me ride it!!

Your situation sounds EXACTLY like ours over here. Trying to put a new lawn in. Ground is so hard we can't put a shovel in it. Failed with a 7' rake. Failed to find any places that rent 3pth attachments. Have a pile of loam that needs spreading but want to loosen up the ground first.

I just purchased a box blade and am planning on trying it this weekend if the rain holds out. I sort of think it's not going to get us the soil bed we're looking for, though...but I hope by adding the fresh topsoil onto what we can break up, it will be enough.

Where in NH are you? You can borrow my BB if I can borrow your KTM...

 

[Mudhen]

Well...the box blade worked ok. Just ok. The ground looks more like I'm going to plant a row of seeds than a lawn. Th bb scarifiers ripped it up, but for the most part just where they were...so I when I'd move to the next row I would only move about a foot and dig again. I probably should have gone up and back, then side to side...but that would have taken me all day. As it was I was doing each row twice - once with the bb only down a little, and then with all the way down. Otherwise I had issues with catching stuff and the tractor stopping dead (no idea if I was going too fast, not fast enough, or what?)

It did break it up A LOT, though...hopefully with the new top soil on it will be enough.

One thing I couldn't quite figure was how to not pull so much dirt behind me. I removed the forward bottom blade even...but still would have to stop every 15' or so and push the dirt back.

I can DEFINITELY see that a tiller was in order. Not sure how it would have handled the huge junk that was in there, though, I've never used one before.

 

[DavidPerry]

I worked over a 5000 sf spot for slab preparation. It took a lot of box blad prep time. After many passes over with the scarifers down, the hard TX soil broke into powder. After that, I got the scarifers out of the way and adjusted the height to affect how much dirt I was pulling around. With a full box just floating a bit of the ground it does great leveling work.

 

[rswyan]

The bb scarifiers ripped it up, but for the most part just where they were...so I when I'd move to the next row I would only move about a foot and dig again. I probably should have gone up and back, then side to side...but that would have taken me all day. As it was I was doing each row twice - once with the bb only down a little, and then with all the way down. Otherwise I had issues with catching stuff and the tractor stopping dead (no idea if I was going too fast, not fast enough, or what?)

It did break it up A LOT, though...hopefully with the new top soil on it will be enough.

Sounds like you need to revise your technique - if you have the room, try running the BB with the rippers down and running in overlapping circles or overlapping figure-eights - or some type of overlapping pattern. One of the keys to leveling is crossing the same points at different angles.

Generally when doing this you want to leave the boxblade set to a height where it is resting on the ground - but not digging aggressively. Run in 4WD (if you have it) in low or mid-range and if you catch something, see if you can pull it up by raising the BB with the 3PH - use your loader bucket to gather up large rocks as you go.

If you do this long enough (which could be over a period of days, not hours, depending on the size of the area) you will wind up with a very smooth surface.

For the most part the soil will have broken up and recompacted, leaving a light layer of fine, loose soil on top with a soild subsurface that won't settle unevenly. When you are ready to seed, use a drag (old piece of chainlink fence works well) or a landscape rake to cover the seed once it's been spread. Or you can rake it by hand with a 36" landscape rake.

One thing I couldn't quite figure was how to not pull so much dirt behind me. I removed the forward bottom blade even...but still would have to stop every 15' or so and push the dirt back.

Drag a full or partially full box to level any depressions. When you have it broken up and leveled raise it to just barely floating over the surface like David says to spread the remaining dirt in the box.

I can DEFINITELY see that a tiller was in order. Not sure how it would have handled the huge junk that was in there, though, I've never used one before.

I wouldn't use a tiller - it will break up the soil to the point that it is overly loose to a depth that is way more than you probably need - and once it eventually settles it wil most likely leave you with an uneven surface.

 

[Sask 2210]

I recently broke/prepped @3 of the 5 acres around my house, getting it ready to seed a lawn. I prepped the front first, by tilling (multiple passes, over the course of 4 mos.) to knock down the prarie grass and weeds. Then dragged a harrow bar, again multiple times, followed by an 8ft. level (formed steel channel, @ 150lbs.). This would be a 3-step process, till/harrow/level, over the 4 month period. The most important lesson I learned is this...DO NOT cut corners, or try to rush it...the results will dissapoint you! I rushed the front yard, and tried to do it without removing all the rocks, and without adding enough topsoil, and now I am adding soil/removing rocks/re-seeding. I got it right on the side of my house, and on the back yard, though. Pay a little extra, have someone scrape the yard for you, if you do not want to buy the equipment. The bobcat suggestion sounds good. (My neighbour contracted the local Hudderite colony to do his yard...they came in with huge belly scrapers! Overkill, but an awesome sight, watching those two beasts doing laps around his house!) Anyways, don’t scrimp, you’ll only regret it later. Just my experience,
Sask 2210

 

[ktm250rider]

Well IVe been box blading over the past couple of days. Taking time out for the PATS right now. I pulled up at least a dozen LARGE rocks that I was planning on using a backhoe for. Guess I shouldnt tell the wife that. I also did some leveling around the house. Looks like a box blade may be a very near future purchase. The rental place only had a 60". I may look for a 72" for behind my 4510.

 

[Sask 2210]

Are you living in a new development, where your neighbors are in the same boat as you? Maybe you can go halfsies on a BB with a neighbor, save on cost (I did that with my neighbor on a 50 bushell pto drive spreader, for seeding/fertilizing the lawns...that thing kicks a@#, I spread 200lbs. of seed for the side yard in @1/2 hr., compared to forever with the walk behind, drop spreader)...but, I digress. Partnership might be the answer, if that works for you.

2210

BTW, it also gives you a great excuse for drinking beer...’’Going to the neighbors, to get the box-blade,’hic’

 

[Mudhen]

Is 84" too big?

This one is in MA...

eBay: NEW BOX BLADE , SCRAPER,84 INCH WIDE,3 PT HITCH (item 280029155240 end time Sep-23-06 18:31:51 PDT)

Pat

 

[ktm250rider]

84 is probably no too big but I dont like the type of pins used on the 3 pth arms. I prefer the type on the landprides which i guess are called capture pins. Even on the 5 footer I rented, they pins would work free and loosen up.