New Low Sulpher Fuel?

[KICK]

Since you haven't updated your profile to let us know where you are located, all I can say is that if you got a diesel pickup truck you are already using ULSD and if you are buying off-road for your tractor it is either LSD, home heating oil or ULSD. The pump label will tell you.

QUOTE]
Madref,you cant use a broad brush and think that what happens in the NE is the same thing that is happening in the rest of the country.

I'm in FLA and we arent on the fast track like the liberal NE states or the Peoples Republic of California. We have to comply with the EPA by the beginning of 07 regarding the ulsd.

contrary to what you think, If I head over to my local truckstop and I buy his off road diesel, he has a label on the pump saying its not 500 ppm low sulfur diesel and is not legal for use in diesel powered on road vehciles.

they also have a label on the on road pumps saying that it doesn't meet the 2007 ulsd specs and is not legal to use in 07 vehciles. I know they have to make the change very soon but the fact temains that low sulfur diesel was below 500 ppm since the 90's and the off road stuff had to be below 5000 ppm.

 

[KICK]

I have read all the information that is available most everywhere on the net. I don't know when your info was dated or where it came from but as per the current EPA regulations,

FWIW. my info came from the EPA's websight.

FWIW not every state of the Union is the same when it comes to emissions.

 

[MadReferee]

I'm in FLA and we arent on the fast track like the liberal NE states or the Peoples Republic of California. We have to comply with the EPA by the beginning of 07 regarding the ulsd.

I don't know where on the epa web site you are getting your info but I cannot find any documentation anywhere that deals with on-road diesel not being ULSD by October 2006. According to the latest from the EPA, California retailers had to be ULSD compliant by September 1, 2006, and everybody else except Alaska by October 16, 2006.

contrary to what you think, If I head over to my local truckstop and I buy his off road diesel, he has a label on the pump saying its not 500 ppm low sulfur diesel and is not legal for use in diesel powered on road vehciles.

I never said that HSD or even LSD was not available. What I said was that it's availability will be severely curtailed as most refineries will no longer be producing that blend or will be producing it in very small quantities. It's simple economics. If you are located near a small refinery that is still producing HSD then it probably will be available in your locale. It's simple economics and availability.

Also, only 20% or the combined imported and domestically produced diesel can be LSD/HSD. That fuel also has to be isolated from ULSD so as not to contaminate it. That alone is an economic disencentive to produce and distribute non-ULSD fuel. It cost money to do that which probably means that non-ULSD fuel prices will soon rise.

they also have a label on the on road pumps saying that it doesn't meet the 2007 ulsd specs and is not legal to use in 07 vehciles. I know they have to make the change very soon but the fact temains that low sulfur diesel was below 500 ppm since the 90's and the off road stuff had to be below 5000 ppm.

It's good to see that the pump regulations are being followed.

Once again you are not fully understanding what I said. Yes the HSD was/is available in certain locales. However for the vast majority, probably over 95% of the country, LSD was all that was available for off-road fuel. There will always be isolated areas where different blends of fuel will be available. This is due to local availability conditions as I stated previously.

ULSD is here to stay. I predict that within a year domestic production of HSD will go away, LSD will become scarce and expensive, and ULSD will be the norm. California has already mandated that and the rest of the country will soon follow. Economics, demand and availability.

 

[Charolais]

Mad, Called Southern States back the first week in Oct. They came on the 14th and filled my tractor fuel tank(offroad). I asked had they switched to the newer fuel. The truck driver told me they were mixing it at that time. He said what he pumped in my tank was about 50-50. Said by the middle of Nov. the change would be complete.

 

[KICK]

Not really.

Prior to October 2006 the off-road (dyed) fuel and the on-road fuel had the same sulphur content (<500ppm). In some areas of the country dyed fuel was the same as home heating oil. Today, unless home heating oil is being used as the off-road fuel, just about all you will find is the new ULSD that has been dyed. This is because the larger refineries cannot make any more of the old stuff, and the smaller refineries can only have up to 20% of their production being the dyed <500 ppm variety.

QUOTE]


Mad Ref, this is what you posted.

you made the claim that off road and on road had the same sulfur content before oct 06.

all I sed was that claim was not true..

 

[KICK]

Once again you are not fully understanding what I said. Yes the HSD was/is available in certain locales. However for the vast majority, probably over 95% of the country, LSD was all that was available for off-road fuel. There will always be isolated areas where different blends of fuel will be available. This is due to local availability conditions as I stated previously.

QUOTE]

your trying to validate your claim by changing what you said in a previous post. you are under oath here,and words have meaning unless you want to retract one of your previous posts.

You will notice that I did not claim that off road fuel was necessarily high sulfur diesel fuel, just that it could be by law and that it was allowable to be up to 5000 ppm sulfur.

 

[MadReferee]

you are under oath here,and words have meaning unless you want to retract one of your previous posts.

No I am not. I am not retracting anything.

You will notice that I did not claim that off road fuel was necessarily high sulfur diesel fuel, just that it could be by law and that it was allowable to be up to 5000 ppm sulfur.

Yes it could be, but in reality it usually isn't except for isolated areas of the country. Just because the law allows something does not mean that it is economically viable to follow it.

This discussion is becomming pointless.

 

[dirtworksequip]

PUMP IT & FORGET IT! I own 2 diesel autos, 3 diesel tractors and 4 pieces of Cat heavy equipment. Don't worry,be happy!

 

[KICK]

pointless to make a claim that is false and try to justify it with another claim that is true.

I'm done with it too.

 

[SkyPup]

Sounds good, besides soon you won't have any choice anyhow....