New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding????

   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding???? #11  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Especially when it sits right on the ocean /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif )</font>

Actually, it's not right on the ocean. It's WORSE! It's a fair piece to the ocean (40 miles or so if I remember right). The levees that broke are the ones that hold back Lake Ponchetrain. The heart of the old town is right by the side of the Mississippi River, which, at that particular location, is several feet ABOVE sea level. You can stand on THIS DIFFERENT LEVEE (the one that DIDN'T break) and look west, "Oh, there's the surface of the Mighty Miss about 15 feet below me. And hey, that water's kinda' flowin pretty fast too. And, hmm, look over here to the east of me. There's the street about 27 feet below me."

I've stood there and just shook my head several times. If a Cat 5 storm had raced straight up the river channel and busted THAT levee, we wouldn't see buildings standing in stagnant water, we'd just see a new channel for the Mississippi River, and no ruins standing of ANY kind.

Nobody's talked about how much worse it coulda' been, but it really could have been far worse. That New Madrid earthquake around 1812 moved the river 50 miles away from its previous course (even made church bells clang in Boston too). A quake that size in that region today could wipe out the entire center of the country.

Another thing is, N.O. wasn't always this low. As part of the Mississippi flood plain, the soil is highly organic. When they built the levees, the soil dried out while simultaneously compacting AND oxidizing off into the atmosprere. The organic stuff in the soil (made of Carbon), rots (binds with Oxygen in the atmosphere) and turns into Carbon Dioxide, a little Carbon Monoxide, etc. and just floats off into the air. Same thing has happened in parts of Florida, the inland delta of central California, and other places.

Lookin' back, 9/11 did not cause nearly as much physical damage as this. 9/11 and this catastrophe have both wounded our psyches, but in really different ways. Though this is hard to take, I guess it's easier to accept it from Mother Nature than from a bunch of insane extremists. Still, maybe it begs the question, post 9/11, have we allocated our resources for disaster response the right way? I don't have the answers, I'm just thinkin' out loud (kinda'). If terrorists could set off a nuclear bomb, it would create a somewhat similar situation as this, possibly lesser in scale (it'd go off at ground level, which is far less effective than 1500-2000 ft. up-and thank God they don't have the wherewithall to build any THERMONUCLEAR, i.e. fusion-Hydrogen bomb type devices). Seems like if we were prepared for that kind of event, the same response would have been made to this. I'm not gonna say I'm for or against the war, however there are a lot of Guardsmen off in the middle east who might otherwise have been near home to respond to this thing.

Oh well, I've rambled away enough. Hope my thoughts don't come across as offensive to anybody. I apologize now if they did. Have a good Labor Day weekend fellas. I think I'll spend some of mine just making a list of all the blessings I have in my life compared to a lot of other people.
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding???? #12  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

First....You guys are getting way ahead of yourselves on the rebuilding issue. Good or bad, right or wrong, the most prudent thing to do or not at this stage is unimportant.

The reality is that no matter where you live, If a cat 5 hurricane or an f4 tornado or a typhoon or sunami hit, you would be at it's mercy no matter how high you walls or how great your preparation! For all of our man made efforts... the only utopia is in a place that none of us will ever find on this earth.

It is our nature to push the envelope. To the contridictions of many, New Orleans will be rebuilt, of that you can be assured. New technology will be used to help protect the city against mother nature.

In the end....all that will really matter is whether or not we came to the aid of our brothers and sisters in humanity during times of crisis regardless of where they live or why they choose to live there.

Rebuild New Orleans??? Sure. Will I live there???? No!!! Would I help if it happens again??? YES!!!!

Would I help if it hit your town????......You Bet!
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding???? #13  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Without going to the history books/etc..How did New Orleans end up being built where it is way back when and why ???
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding???? #14  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

A Google search of "history of new orleans" yields a number of sites with answers to your question.
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding???? #15  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( No, the situations are not the same, I never said they were. However, the North Sea and the storms there are substantial. So keeping them out is no small feat.

The simple fact is that it's possible to do. Civil Engineers and the Corp of Engineers have stated they can build levees to handle Cat 5 hurricanes. It's also possible to build up New Orleans so it's not below sea level. Something the engineers have also said is possible.

I think it's the height of arrogance for people who (1) Do not live in New Orleans and (2) Have no idea what's possible, to blithely state the city shouldn't be rebuilt. Should not rebuilding be a consideration? Certainly. But it's not as intuitively obvious as some pretend it is. )</font>
Some scientists say that putting a manned colony on Mars is also possible... but that doesn't mean we should rush right out and get started on it....
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding????
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

I have a question for you Texas folks. I recall a town or city on the Gulf Coast that had been destroyed several times and rebuilt. From what I recall the federal goverment refused to rebuild it a 3rd time. Do you know the name of the town or city?
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding???? #17  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( First....You guys are getting way ahead of yourselves on the rebuilding issue. Good or bad, right or wrong, the most prudent thing to do or not at this stage is unimportant. )</font>

Respectfully, I disagree. I'm not sure who "You guys" includes, but good men can feel anguish in their hearts and look analytically at tactical problems at the same time. One after another of the Northern generals were intimidated by the genius of Bobby Lee. Abe Lincoln kept changing generals until he found one who knew the only way to defeat Lee-attrition. In his first encounter with Lee, Grant took a whipping. That night he wept like a baby for the thousands of boys who gave their lives. The next morning he was up before dawn ordering another full frontal assault. Now is the MOST appropriate time to apply logic, right alongside the emotion.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Rebuild New Orleans??? Sure. Will I live there???? No!!! Would I help if it happens again??? YES!!!! )</font>

Again, respectfully, are you there now?

To the poster who asked about history: military/political tactical geography. Envisage North America 250 years ago. British colonies on the Atlantic coast, French trappeurs, but no settlers in the north center of the continent and into the Mississippi basin. Spain holds claim to Florida, the Gulf Coast, the Southwest and West. N.O. begins as a Spanish fort capable of controlling the almost incomprehensible potential for water borne trade on the mighty Mississippi. Spain's power fades. France purchases N.O. from Spain with the agreement that she will NEVER sell to the U.S., with a disclaimer that Spain will intervene militarily if such a sale happens. Napoleon begins to become overwhelmed in his quest for conquest of Europe. A faraway wilderness colony is not his most important objective. Though not yet known by the name "Manifest Destiny", Thomas Jefferson envisions an empire in North America. Not an empire of colonies, but an empire of independent autonomous states in a great federal republic, an EMPIRE OF LIBERTY which will stretch from the Atlantic to the Pacific. The federal debt is enormous and congress in no mood to spend money. Nevertheless, Jefferson secretly sends his secretary of state, James Madison, to meet with Emperor Bonaparte. T.J. authorizes Madison to offer Napoleon $3 million for N.O. as its fortress is key to trade on the Mighty Mississippi and the opening of the center of the continent. Madison is told to start at $3 million and to go no higher than $10 million. Bonaparte is desperate for cash to continue his continental quest for power. He counters Madison's opening offer with an opportunity to take all French territory below the Great Lakes for $17 million. Dumbfounded at first, Madison follows the Latin maxim, Carpe Diem (seize the day), and the Louisiana Purchase becomes part of the United States, for the unimaginable sum of $15 million. Congress is mad as h***, Spain is powerless to intervene, Louis and Clark begin their westward journey, and, as they say, the rest is history.
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding???? #18  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Very Interesting Tom. You obviously have a history background.
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding???? #19  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

<font color="blue"> but that doesn't mean we should rush right out and get started on it.... </font>
At least you're consistent. I didn't say this either.
 
   / New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding????
  • Thread Starter
#20  
Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(

I think it's the height of arrogance for people who (1) Do not live in New Orleans and (2) Have no idea what's possible, to blithely state the city shouldn't be rebuilt. Should not rebuilding be a consideration? Certainly. But it's not as intuitively obvious as some pretend it is. )</font>

I think my questions on this where in fact relevant and not of arrogance. That city will be rebuilt with my tax dollars and yours. To rebuild it at the present level it sits at would be stupid in my opinion. Especially seeing the fact that the city holds back an enormous lake. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this can and probably will happen again. This is not the first time that I know of that New Orleans has been flooded out.
 

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