New Shingles For Roof

   / New Shingles For Roof #21  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( was asked to reduce the price of his house $25,000 by lazy agents )</font>

When we sold our house in Dallas in '89, I met an unusual real estate agent (or maybe it was just his customer that was unusual). We had no contract with any real estate agent, and had priced the house to a lady who worked for the same company as my wife. She and her husband had come and looked at it and liked it, said they'd see if they could get financing. The next day a real estate agent called me and asked if I'd be willing to work with a real estate agent instead of a private sale. It seems that couple had bought a house from him in the past and wanted him to handle the sale. I told him I'd be glad to let him handle the deal, but that the price I had quoted them would be 10% higher! He readily agreed, showed up in his new Cadillac wearing enough gold jewelry to stock a medium sized jewelry store, and got the deal all done. Now he didn't do anything illegal, and the buyers liked him, but it sure would have been cheaper for them if they hadn't used him.
 
   / New Shingles For Roof #22  
Bird, it was their choice; obviously they brought him into the sale, knowing it would cost them more, because it made them feel more comfortable.

I'm not certain what the RE agent's choice of jewely or car have to do with it.

The funny thing is, although I have never worn any jewelry, the first thing I did when I got my RE license was to buy a Cadillac. Why? Because it worked. I bought a 4-year old Caddy at a bargain price. I remember one of my clients getting out of his brand-new Buick, which cost about 3 times what I paid for my Caddy, and commenting favorably about how well he was being treated when he got in the Caddy. Times have changed and I wouldn't necessarily choose a Cadillac today, but it's wise business to provide for the comfort of the client.
 
   / New Shingles For Roof #23  
This is turning into a fun and informative post.

While I was living in California I decided to move to Texas, buy some land and build an RV Park. I didn't have any knowledge of the area I wanted other then it looked perfect on the map.

I started contacting Real Estate agents from the internet with land for sale to see if the land met my requirements to develop.

Of the several dozen I sent emails to, only half responded. All except two didn't answer a single question, just gave me there phone numbers and asked me to call them.

Of the two that did reply, one offered advice and suggestions on his listings and later on, other listings. His advice has been dead accurate and extremely informative. I've saved thousands of dollars by listening to his years of experience in the area, his contacts and perspective.

I generally have a fairly low opinion of Real Estate agents. The turn over is amazing. Some bust their buts, others just coast through knowing another sucker is around the corner. But if you find a good one, then there's money to be made!

Eddie
 
   / New Shingles For Roof
  • Thread Starter
#24  
Well, I had one of those nights last night and I never had the chance to get back here to check on any responses that my question might have recieved. Guess it did get some responses, huh? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

First, let me thank all of you that offered some information and suggestions. I believe that as a result of your help, I have a better understanding of my situation and a clearer idea of how to handle it. I'll try to respond to some of the questions that some of you raised, but probably won't catch all of them.

The shingles are the original shingles, which makes them 16 years old. I called them 15 year shingles because that's what the gutter contractor called them. He was installing some new gutters, so he had a close up look at them, and I accepted that he knew what he was talking about. Although he is not specifically a "roofing" contractor, he has enough experience dealing with the exterior maintenance of homes that I accept what he says as being accurate. He did say that although he could tell they were worn, with some slight curling, they were in reasonably good shape considering how old they were. There is only 1 layer of shingles, and we have no known leaks.

We're planning on selling the house ourselves, with a start date of May 1st. We've already alerted our attorney, and will be meeting with him next week. I was definitely going to get roof repair estimates, both full tear off and replace and just the re-shingle job, just to have those in hand if someone wanted to use the possibility for a negotiating tactic. I'm also going to have a separate assessment done on the home.

Although I had not considered asking different realtors to come and evaluate the house at this time, I may just do that now to see what they have to say. That's a good idea.

I agree that realtors tend to have a bad reputation. A very good friend of ours just got stuck by a realtor in a situation very similar to another thread that was posted a short time ago. Our friend was selling the house that she got through her divorce, and the realtor talked her into reducing the asking price based on "what the market was doing" at that time. After the house was sold, our friend found out that the people that bought the house were friends of the realtor. There was another thread about this very thing a week or so ago. So stories like that tend to support the general belief that realtors are sharks.

However, my personal experience has been fairly positive. We sold our first house through a realtor, and it was a very easy process that actually got us a higher sale than what we were asking. I'm only trying to sell the house ourselves because I'm not crazy about losing the 6% commission (or whatever it might be) if I don't have to. We've decided that we'll give it 2 months, and if we haven't sold it by then, we'll turn it over to a realtor. I don't necessarily agree that the realtor is our "enemy". I will agree that as a seller, it is my responsibility to research the various realtors I might consider so that I can select the one that will do the best job for me. But like anything else, they are people who are only doing their jobs, and there will be good ones and there will be bad ones.

This house is definitely NOT a fixer upper! We've taken very good of the place, and I would not have a problem with showing it as it is. However, we have been repainting rooms that we felt that needed a little "freshening". I've sanded down, stained and varnished every window sill. I've relpaced the kitchen sink and the laundry tubs in the laundry room. We're painting a couple of the ceilings that we never painted, we've replaced the carpeting in 2 rooms. And this doesn't include the outside stuff that we've done or will be doing. My wife has been preparing homes for viewing on our local Parade of Homes for over 15 years, so she knows how to show a house. We're even bringing in some (borrowing) extra furniture for a room that we 've never really used just so that it looks "complete".

I believe that we've decided that we will get the roof repair estimates, just so that we have them. But we will not do anything. If a potential buyer asks, we will tell them that the roof is the original roof and that as far as we know, we do not have any leaks or any problems with it.

We actually do have a couple that are considering the house now. Via a mutual acquaintance, I've sent a message to them informing them that if they seriously would like to talk to us about buying the home, we would consider reducing the asking price since it would save us quite a bit of hassle from having to put it on the market. That would be the ideal solution!

Again, thank you all for the terrific information that you provided. This has been another fine example of how TBN members work together to help each other out. Yeah, the thread did begin to wander off topic a bit. But that happens around here most of the time anyway. Sometimes the wandering does add to the discussion, sometimes it doesn't.
 
   / New Shingles For Roof #25  
Pretty much the worst thing that RE agents do around here is utter an opinion. "That land across from you will always be a park..." "There will never be commercial development in this area..." The people who believe a RE agent is any better at telling the future than anyone else deserve to be bit. Always check the area with the local planning & zoning authority, and be extra careful if there is no P&Z.

The biggest "real" offense is mishandling of escrow deposits. 99% of the time it's resolved, and the state has a victim's fund to handle the exceptions. I used to receive a newsletter that listed the disciplinary actions of the Dept of Prof Regulation. Most violations were technical -- improper sign on an office, for example. Some were for moral turpitude -- the agent was arrested for something else, such as possession of illegal substance.

Florida had a terrible time in the '20s and again in the '50s with unscrupulous agents and developers selling unbuildable swamp land. They had to do something drastic, or no one would ever trust a real estate deal in Florida again. What they did was to form FREC, the Florida Real Estate Commission, under the DPR. It was one of the first in the nation, and is still one of the toughest. The requirements are higher, the standards are higher, the enforcement is tougher, the scrutiny is intense -- they just don't fool around.
 
   / New Shingles For Roof #26  
Garry, maybe I'm lazier than you, but I wouldn't bother to get an estimate for the roof unless it turns out to be an issue in the purchase. You'll know soon enough -- they buyers will either offer a reduced price or they will ask you to replace the roof. If a home inspector tags the roof as an item, they will almost certainly ask you to replace it.

The only time you would have to mention the roof (or any other fault) is if you know something that is not readily apparent to the other party. If you were dealing with a real estate agent, they would likely have you sign a disclosure form that there is nothing hidden and wrong with the property that you haven't disclosed.

As far as determining market value, you can get some RE agents to come in and give you an opinion; but remember what I said about dumb ones. You should do a little research on your own -- you will be able to access property sales in your area, either on line or at your local property assessor's office or courthouse. Find recent sales of similar houses in the same or similar neighborhoods. Use your good judgement to throw out obvious unqualified sales such as a sale within a family for too low a price. Make reasonable adjustments for an extra bedroom or a swiming pool or less property. If prices are moving rapidly in your area, make a reasonable time adjustment. See what you come up with and compare it to others. This is known as a market analysis and is exactly what a good, well qualified RE agent will do. The stupid ones will guess or tell you what they think you want to hear. A professional appraiser will do exactly the same thing, except with more experience and training, and be willing to sign his name to the value. You'll pay for that expertise, $300 or more around here. Even there, however, there are appraisers who are known to be too liberal or too conservative. I would always do my own research to get a ballpark.

Sometimes an agent can get you enough extra money to cover their commission. For example, they know how to negotiate and to handle objections. The other primary thing they can do for you is broaden the market. Especially if it's in MLS, you will never be able to attract as many buyers as they can.

I have a lot of experience, but I always use a listing agent and pay the commission. The primary reason is that I panic slightly when the property is my own, am afraid of losing the buyer, and tend to come down too much in my price or give too much away. I find I get more net proceeds with an agent. They also earn a portion of their commission by bringing it to closing with all the piddly things that have to be handled.

As far as the attorney is concerned, I have never used one in a RE deal and never will -- I feel about attorneys like Bob S does about RE agents. I have never seen them do anything except find something to be changed or delayed in order to justify their fee.
 
   / New Shingles For Roof #27  
<font color="red"> As far as the attorney is concerned, I have never used one in a RE deal and never will -- I feel about attorneys like Bob S does about RE agents. I have never seen them do anything except find something to be changed or delayed in order to justify their fee. </font>


Don, we agree on lawyers!!! The only difference is I use them. But I generally feel the same way you do.


EDIT: Garry, buy some of those chocolate chip cookie rolls when you are ready to show the house. The slice & bake kind of rolls in the refrigerated section of the super market. When someone is due to come over to view the house, slice up a roll and bake them so the aroma fills the air inside the house. It smells great. The family walking through smells that wonderful smell and they can imagine themselves eating those cookies and get a very nostalgic feeling. It is a little tip, but I believe it adds to the curb appeal process as it gives one more good impression about your house, and it is an impression that is subtle but very effective.



EDIT #2: Just in case you doubt the above cookie trick, you should probably know that some c-store are now injecting the aroma of coffee into their stores. Studies have proven that the aroma of fresh coffee increases sales in the stores, and people who buy the coffee also often buy a donut, cake, etc. The funny thing is many of the new coffee brewers reduce the aroma, or even eliminate it when they brew coffee so the coffee aroma injected into the stores is artifical.
 
   / New Shingles For Roof #28  
Gary,

One of the things you should ask all the realtors is what you can do to make the house "show" better. Curb apeal is critical in my opinion. Hit them with a smile as they first see the house, then keep it there. It's almost impossible to undo a bad first impression.

Remove all your personal decorations. Family photo's and collections or displays. People who look at your house want to imagine what it will look like withe "their" personal items and decorations. Go sterile, but warm as much as possible.

Wallpaper and bright colors don't help sell a house. Neutral colors are the only ones you should use for paint and flooring.

I bought a house two years ago with bright blue carpet, orange curtains and a matching orange comforter. The owners were extremely proud of the colors and wanted me to know how hard it is to find that shade of orange, so they were leaving it for me. I adjusted my price to buy the house on removing and replacing that blue carpet and other things they had done to the place that I felt needed to be replaced for me to resell the place and make a profit.

The money they spent on "fixing up" the place, actually lowered the price I was willing to pay for it.

When showing the house, keep your lips sealed. Offering too much information about the house and yourself is a huge mistake, but hard not to do when showing the place. It's a poker game and you need to have you poker face on. Don't lie or mislead, but don't start telling them that the roof may or may not need replacing. Let them decide on that. Same thing for every other issue you think might be relevant.

The number one reason for a realtor and a lawyer is to deal with our issues in a dispassionate manner. As the owner, you have pride in the house. This doesn't do well in selling a place to somebody who may very well want to tear out all you work you put into the place. The buyer has there own style and taste and it is almost always different then yours.

Remember this one thing when selling, it's now a "house for sale" not your home anymore.

Good luck,
Eddie
 
   / New Shingles For Roof #29  
Several others have made comments about WHY they used a real estate agent so I will add my $0.02 worth:

When we moved to East Texas a few years ago I had 2 houses we needed to sell in Galveston. Even though I am a real estate agent my specialty is working with buyers and never listed a property for sale, not even my own.

I did the same analysis that I mentioned in my previous post and then listed them with the listing agent I considered the best.

My reasons: He has experience listing and marketing homes, I do not.

As other said, he was dispassionate about it. I would have had too much emotional baggage to deal with the potential buyers.

I didn't want to spend my time trying to sell the house. I preferred to spend my time on my regular work which made up the difference I paid the agent. Time away from my work costs me money.

The agent had a fresh view of the homes. No matter how much I tried to get it ready I was still "blind" to a few minor details that he spotted and I corrected.

While I agree there are some in the RE biz that are worthless a good agent earns his money. It is not only about finding a potential buyer, but it needs to be a QUALIFIED buyer. A good agent will take a prospective buyer to a mortgage company first and get them qualified for a loan before showing them homes.

A good agent will not waste their time with people who cannot buy anything. And believe me, there are lots of people out there who think they can get something for nothing down even with their horrible credit. They will show up and sign a contract in an instant but it is not worth the paper it is written on. A mortgage broker told me that 20% of the contracts he see that were written without a pre-approval never closed because of bad credit. Do you really want to take a house off the market for 30 days only to find out the buyer can't buy it?

An agent can sell it faster. Even if the house is paid for you have to figure out how much interest the money would earn in a CD every 30 days, then add 30 days worth of taxes, insurance, and maintenance costs. That is how much it costs you to own it every month. Trying to sell it yourself for 90 days will cost 3 times that amount.

A real estate agent will have all the proper forms. You say "All I need is a sales contract and I can get that off the Internet". You are partly right, you can find some sales contract but it may not apply in your state. Each state has it's own RE laws.

And the sales contract is only part of it. An agent will make you fill out a "Seller's Disclosure Form". That is for your protection as well as the buyer's protection.

The #1 cause for RE lawsuits is defects in the property that are not found until after the sale. Full disclosure of anything you know about the property is your best protection from later problems. If the property had a defect, for heaven's sake, disclose it! This is a "used" house and anytime we buy a "used" item we expect some wear and tear and maybe a defect or 2. If they are minor we can live with them, if they are major we can get them taken care of before closing. Unless you like being taken to court don't ever try to hide anything. The roof that started this thread is a good example of something that a real estate agent would reveal to buyers (that it is 16 years old) but a seller might try to "gloss over" it by saying, "Yes, it's 16 years old but it probably has another 10 years left in it". When the roof leaks 3 years later that seller may be sued because he told the buyer the roof was good for another 10 years.

On the other hand, a seller who is too unsure may end up spend thousands of dollars replacing a roof prematurely.

One more important point: If there is a lawsuit later the agent and his company will be caught up in it too so they will have a real incentive to fight for you. In fact, many times the seller can avoid liability if he took the advice of a licensed professional. The liability would then shift to the agent because the agent is seen as a "sophisticated" professional in the eyes of the law and you (as an unwitting dupe) are seen as an "innocent" party to the deal. You are not expected to know a lot of things, but the agent is.

Part of what you are paying him for is to accept liability if the deal goes bad later on.

Bill Tolle
 
   / New Shingles For Roof #30  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm not certain what the RE agent's choice of jewely or car have to do with it. )</font>

Actually, nothing, Don, except that I think he obviously was quite wealthy; not just the "appearance" that many, if not most, realtors put on by driving high dollar cars. And he was supposedly working for the buyer, but actually cost them a considerable amount more than they would have spent without him, and all he did was just a little paperwork; fast, easy money for him.
 

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